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AIBU?

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Original poster

Was this abusive or was I just stupid?

123 replies

KatieMay123 · 07/10/2021 17:50

Some years ago I was very casually 'seeing' a minor celebrity who has been and still appears on TV occasionally.

He was late 30s, I was mid-20s and unemployed. I was in a bad space and living alone following a weird breakup.

The first time we had sex I was extremely drunk but consented.
Immediately and entirely out of the blue he began calling me derogatory, misogynistic, women-hating names during sex but I laughed it off as I didn't want to cause a scene. It was painful and angry, like being stabbed. I pretended to enjoy it.

We met up several more times, always ending in sex and always the same. I carried on because I hoped he'd grow to like me.

He let me know exactly what he thought of me by telling me I would never meet his parents or anyone else important in his life.

Finally I didn't hear from him for a while and I moved on.

It wasn't until some years later that I realised how wrong this all was. The reality probably obscured by being in thrall.

I would have probably not let these memories bother me so much, but the fact that he has used his profile to raise £100,000s for women's charities astounds me.

Perhaps it's because he feels guilty. Perhaps it's because he wishes to portray himself as a nice family man.

I haven't ever told anyone IRL the full details. I know he was seeing other people at the time so there will most likely be people out there with similar stories.

Was this abusive, or was I stupid? Probably both!

OP posts:
Happymum12345 · 07/10/2021 20:27

He sounds absolutely awful and took advantage of you. It’s a form of abuse I expect, even though you seemingly went along with it.
People can be so horrible and I’m sorry that you or anyone went through this. Flowers

Original poster
KatieMay123 · 07/10/2021 20:28

I'm guessing it was names like 'slag

"Fucking bitch, fucking whore, take it you slag, you like it you bitch"

OP posts:
Franklyfrost · 07/10/2021 20:30

It was wrong of him. He’s not an good person and treated you badly. It happens a lot, not to make it sound ‘normal’, but to let you know that other people have let themselves be treated badly too. He was abusive but this was not long term abuse.

You were young and didn’t have the knowledge to deal with the situation. Be kind to your younger self. Sometimes we see our past with a new perspective and have to think things through again, to make sense of them from where we are now. I’m sorry this happened to you.

Original poster
KatieMay123 · 07/10/2021 20:30

Also his penis felt like a knife stabbing me, and although I attempted the right noises I'm sure I was wincing!

OP posts:
Original poster
KatieMay123 · 07/10/2021 20:31

Thank you Frost x

OP posts:
Ambrosiann3 · 07/10/2021 20:34

OP you were at a low ebb when you met this older man and he would’ve sensed you wouldn’t challenge him . He decided to treat you to emotional/verbal abuse without asking if you were ok with it.

In terms of all his good deeds for women’s’ charities, I often think that those who shout the loudest about their fundraising/being kind/helping others are some of the most unpleasant folk around.

WeRTheOnesWeHaveBeenWaitingFor · 07/10/2021 20:34

If you have a ‘kink’ like this the time to introduce it is not in the middle of a drunken shag. If he had given a shit how you get he would have asked. Don’t tell me an fully grown adult human can’t tell the difference between embarrassed disgust and enjoyment. He was a wanker and he got off on making you feel bad.

Notimeforaname · 07/10/2021 20:36

"fucking bitch, fucking whore" Ever seen that episode of sex and the city?

Hope you're ok now op. Doesn't sound abusive. Just a shit dude who was bad in bed.

IveGotASongThatllGetOnYNerves · 07/10/2021 20:37

I think he abused your body and treated you with contempt.

tenredthings · 07/10/2021 20:38

Maybe you can give enough clues to who he is that the tabloids will pick up the story and you can shame him for being a selfish fucker ( literally )

beastlyslumber · 07/10/2021 20:39

@PlanDeRaccordement

Can people please stop telling OP that she consented to being abused. He never said to her, "can I abuse you during sex?" He just did it, and she felt she had to go along with it. That it wouldn't be acceptable to say no, or to assert any boundaries.

She mimicked enthusiastic consent. She stated in her OP “I pretended to enjoy it”

I don’t see any coercion. For something to be coercion the perpetrator has to be reasonably aware through verbal or nonverbal cues that the other person doesn’t want or doesn’t like whatever it is. With OP pretending to enjoy it every time they had sex, how could he possibly have been aware?

I can’t call anyone under these circumstances abusive.

Calling people dehumanising names is literally abuse. Look it up in the dictionary. It's called 'verbal abuse'.

The only thing that would have made it not abuse would have been a conversation beforehand where they agreed together that this was okay, and agreed which names could be said and what the limits were etc.

Verbally abusing someone during sex without their consent is abuse. He did it because he knew she wouldn't like it. OP has said a few times now that her reaction to the abuse was nervous laughter and trying to look away - nothing that would have made him think she was enjoying herself. He would have known fine well that she was frightened and humiliated.

RainbowCrossing · 07/10/2021 20:40

@beastlyslumber

Yes of course he was abusive. He literally abused you. He called you hateful names and that's how he got off. He told you you weren't good enough to meet his family. You were vulnerable and he used you as an emotional punching bag, and sexualised his abuse of you for his own enjoyment. He sounds like a complete misogynist.

People like that don't change, OP. They only get worse. His charity work will be a good cover, a good way of gaslighting women like you who will be thinking, "it must be something wrong with me, he's such a good person, look at all the money he gives to charity."

I'm sorry this happened to you, OP. It sounds awful and very destructive to your self-esteem and sense of yourself. What a horrible, and abusive, man he is.

This. Flowers
MissChanandlerBong81 · 07/10/2021 20:40

Would anyone here have sex with a man for the first time and start abusing him in bed without being invited to? Not that there are equivalent demeaning sex-based insults for men, but still. I definitely wouldn’t.

ButterflyAway · 07/10/2021 20:41

There’s been a steady drip drip drip here.

Feelslikealot · 07/10/2021 20:41

None of us were there op. None of us can actually say whether he's an abuser and whether he set out to abuse you. What is clear is that you feel as though you were abused, which could have been because he's an abuser, or maybe he's not an abuser and it was just bad sex. I've had bad sex which left me feeling in weird, but i consented to it. I've also had sex i didn't consent to, and there is a difference. As i said, only you know whether you were too drunk to consent and if he took advantage. Nobody on this thread can possibly know. On your first post you said you did consent, hence why i posted what i did. I don't think it's helpful for people to rush in and label your experience for you. I'm not in the business of defending rapists. If you were too drunk to consent, that's rape. (as i said above, and got called messed up by some idiot) if you were capable of consent, and you did consent, then even though you didn't find it enjoyable if you pretended that you did - how would he have known?

What is clear, as i say, is that this is obviously affecting you and whether he intended it or not, you feel as if you were abused. It wouldn't be an over reaction to seek some kind of therapy for this if you feel you need to discuss it and work through it.

DiscoLightsOnAFridayNight · 07/10/2021 20:43

Here you go OP, exact same line

RainbowCrossing · 07/10/2021 20:43

Lovely to see the 'poor men don't know when they are abusing women/you should have screamed and struggled,' lot out this week though. Hmm

It's a good job there isn't an epidemic of abuse against women and a definite need to examine society and make it safer for women and girls otherwise they'd look like right cunts.

Original poster
KatieMay123 · 07/10/2021 20:45

Thank you everyone. I'm going to stop posting now and go back to my usual name, but it's been really helpful to finally talk about this and get some insight from others.

I've felt shame about being so naive over it for a long time, but it's good to hear that my niggles about it being abusive or at least not totally above board are not outrageous.

I do agree about the power imbalance. How could I complain about a little verbal abuse when he'd paid for expensive dinner / taxis / drinks in private member's club / cooked me dinner etc etc

I'm now married to a wonderful kind man but more importantly have learnt how to live on my own terms, and take no shit.

Thank you x

OP posts:
Feelslikealot · 07/10/2021 20:47

Lovely to see the 'poor men don't know when they are abusing women/you should have screamed and struggled,' lot out this week though.

Who is saying that? Literally nobody has said that. Can't you read?

VladmirsPoutine · 07/10/2021 20:48

A lot of these responses really do come from the same school of thought that scrutinises whether a woman's skirt was too short, why she wasn't wearing 'sensible shoes', why she got into a taxi alone, why she didn't run away or scream...

spotcheck · 07/10/2021 20:48

This thread make me sad and angry in equal measures.

Of course it's abusive. Yes she returned. But it is still abuse.

What is so hard to understand about people with low self esteem who are targeted for abuse? It's still abuse.

There are so many versions of this story. The wife who ( willingly) cooks dinner for her husband, who continually berates her for her efforts. That's abuse.

The grown child who willingly looks after their elderly parents who shouts at them for no reason. That's abuse.

I could go on. And on and on.

OP was young, less sure of herself and dazzled by his celebrity. This causes a power imbalance, which I'm sure was his intention. I suspect part of the excitement for him was the shock on her face.
It was still abuse.

Yes it took OP some time to understand that this was really really wrong. It was still abuse.

And no, we can't dismiss this as 'his kink'. Where do I start with such idiocy?

Is a 'kink' not an act agreed upon by both parties?

Bloody hell.

I despair

Flobbertybillop · 07/10/2021 20:49

This is a kink, and he absolutely should have got proper consent, and discussed limits and boundaries with you first, and is not something that should ever been done under the influence.
You are not to blame, he is, even if you did not verbally consent, your body language would have been VERY obvious and he chose to ignore it.
No one should be dismissing your feelings, and excusing him.
I’m sorry you went through this, have you considered some therapy?

Flobbertybillop · 07/10/2021 20:49

I’m so fucking angry with some of this attitudes in this thread :(

beastlyslumber · 07/10/2021 20:50

@spotcheck

This thread make me sad and angry in equal measures.

Of course it's abusive. Yes she returned. But it is still abuse.

What is so hard to understand about people with low self esteem who are targeted for abuse? It's still abuse.

There are so many versions of this story. The wife who ( willingly) cooks dinner for her husband, who continually berates her for her efforts. That's abuse.

The grown child who willingly looks after their elderly parents who shouts at them for no reason. That's abuse.

I could go on. And on and on.

OP was young, less sure of herself and dazzled by his celebrity. This causes a power imbalance, which I'm sure was his intention. I suspect part of the excitement for him was the shock on her face.
It was still abuse.

Yes it took OP some time to understand that this was really really wrong. It was still abuse.

And no, we can't dismiss this as 'his kink'. Where do I start with such idiocy?

Is a 'kink' not an act agreed upon by both parties?

Bloody hell.

I despair

Well said.
CorianderAndCream · 07/10/2021 20:50

It sounds unpleasant and very much on the line but I don't think it quite tips into abuse. If you'd mentioned you didn't like it then yes, but otherwise it seems like you consented and didn't rescind your consent when he did something you didn't like.