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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

Was this abusive or was I just stupid?

123 replies

KatieMay123 · 07/10/2021 17:50

Some years ago I was very casually 'seeing' a minor celebrity who has been and still appears on TV occasionally.

He was late 30s, I was mid-20s and unemployed. I was in a bad space and living alone following a weird breakup.

The first time we had sex I was extremely drunk but consented.
Immediately and entirely out of the blue he began calling me derogatory, misogynistic, women-hating names during sex but I laughed it off as I didn't want to cause a scene. It was painful and angry, like being stabbed. I pretended to enjoy it.

We met up several more times, always ending in sex and always the same. I carried on because I hoped he'd grow to like me.

He let me know exactly what he thought of me by telling me I would never meet his parents or anyone else important in his life.

Finally I didn't hear from him for a while and I moved on.

It wasn't until some years later that I realised how wrong this all was. The reality probably obscured by being in thrall.

I would have probably not let these memories bother me so much, but the fact that he has used his profile to raise £100,000s for women's charities astounds me.

Perhaps it's because he feels guilty. Perhaps it's because he wishes to portray himself as a nice family man.

I haven't ever told anyone IRL the full details. I know he was seeing other people at the time so there will most likely be people out there with similar stories.

Was this abusive, or was I stupid? Probably both!

OP posts:
BiscuitLover09876 · 07/10/2021 19:09

You're not stupid. You were very drunk which any decent person knows means the consent is iffy. He also abused his power by being famous, which I'm pretty sure made you more in aw of him and able to look past it.

I hope you're ok. I also wish I knew who he was!

ANameChangeAgain · 07/10/2021 19:09

I think it was abusive. Whether you consented to sex or not, he knew what he was doing.

BiscuitLover09876 · 07/10/2021 19:09

As in the fact he was famous meant he would've had more power over you.

Agree aibu is a shirty thread, please remember that. Flowers

BiscuitLover09876 · 07/10/2021 19:11

@Feelslikealot

know that if my own daughter was in a £million home of a celebrity and was so drunk she'd been vomiting, I'd hope he wouldn't then take her to bed and start calling her derogatory names!

Either you were sober enough to consent or you weren't. It's not very clear, from this you seem to be saying you weren't in a position to consent, in your op you said you definitely consented. Only you know whether you consented or not. If you did consent, and weren't too drunk to, then no it's not abuse. Not all sex that you don't enjoy is necessarily abusive. If you were too drunk to consent then it's rape.

Wow you're messed up.
lynntheyresexpeople · 07/10/2021 19:12

No, I don't think it was abusive.
There are a lot of different kinks out there, some women enjoy being called derogatory names during sex, and he was obviously into that.
If you'd spoken up and said you didn't like it, then yes it would be abusive.

PlanDeRaccordement · 07/10/2021 19:13

The first time we had sex I was extremely drunk but consented.
Immediately and entirely out of the blue he began calling me derogatory, misogynistic, women-hating names during sex but I laughed it off as I didn't want to cause a scene. It was painful and angry, like being stabbed. I pretended to enjoy it.

I agree consent means enthusiastic agreement. However, you pretended to enjoy the sex and being called names. You pretended enthusiastic consent. So I am sorry but this is not abuse on his part, no one is a mind reader or is expected to distinguish between enthusiastic consented and pretended enjoyment. You were also mid-20s so not especially vulnerable due to youth. So I agree it is unfair to now call it abuse.

hardyloveit · 07/10/2021 19:14

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ConfusedNoMore · 07/10/2021 19:17

Was it rape? No. Was it abuse? Yes.

There are a lot of different types of abuse. He was using you. He used you for his own gratification. He didn't check you were ok with it. He 'got away with it'. Abuse comes in many forms.

The comment you make about how you'd feel about it if it were your daughter is spot on, imo.

Yes some women like sex like that but you didn't and he didn't care to check you did. The absence of protest is not enthusiastic consent. If I was being generous (and I don't actually want to be), I'd call it 'taking advantage'. You were younger and not his equal in status.

I'm sorry it made you feel low. I wouldn't say I had similar experience in terms of celebrity or type of sex, but as a young woman I did have men who took advantage (yeah probably would call it rape) and one who was in a position of power who should have taken more responsibility for his actions with a teenager ten years his junior. I too did some thinking about it when I got older.

Windywuss · 07/10/2021 19:19

Jeeeeeez there are some horrible comments on here. @KatieMay123 I would either move the thread or step away. Not cool people.

Original poster
KatieMay123 · 07/10/2021 19:20

If you'd spoken up

I suppose I felt I couldn't - like it was safer almost if I didn't. I didn't want to turn the atmosphere sour. He at no point checked if I was into being slut-shamed.

He let me know I was just a shag btw on our 5th or so 'date', so it wasn't something immediately obvious.

OP posts:
Original poster
KatieMay123 · 07/10/2021 19:21

Thank you to all the kind posters!

OP posts:
Original poster
KatieMay123 · 07/10/2021 19:28

I don't understand why you're even mentioning it

It's been playing on my mind as I've had an increasingly niggling doubt that it wasn't right.

Also prompted by the fact he's been in a lot of shows we like on TV recently. Including right now, so I've left the room to make dinner!

OP posts:
toocold54 · 07/10/2021 19:32

It definitely wasn’t abuse and you consented but I think you still have a right to feel negative about it.
But you are probably more ashamed that you let yourself be treated that way as you were so in awe of a celebrity but now you’re older and wiser you know you would never do that.

There is definitely an issue with young girls doing whatever celebrity men want them to do which can easily turn abusive.

I’m not sure if you’re aware of the R.Kelly case but this is what happened, the young women were so in love with the fact he was a star that they did whatever he said and then it got to a point where it turned abusive. There’s no way he’d have so many girls wrapped around his finger if he wasn’t a celebrity. And it sounds like it was similar in your case - you didn’t really enjoy it but you went along with it anyway.

Original poster
KatieMay123 · 07/10/2021 19:35

ashamed that you let yourself be treated that way

Yes, I have replayed events where I say "what on earth did you just say?!" Then I tell him to fuck off and I leave.

OP posts:
Orangejuicemarathoner · 07/10/2021 19:36

@Joolsin

I totally disagree with most other pps, this was most definitely abusive and definitely not normal either. He was an older man in a powerful position and he took advantage of that, op.
he wasn't in a powerful position? He was just a date, on equal terms? I don't see where this idea of a power inbalance is coming from. The OP wasn't a young teen, or anything like that.
lemmein · 07/10/2021 19:36

I think it sounds abusive, I don't really understand the replies you've received OP. I can totally understand that experiences and our feelings about them can change as we age - something that you accept in your 20s can seem abhorrent in your 40s. It sounds like a very toxic relationship and he was yet another arsehole who gets off on degrading women. I'm glad you got out of it.

Please ignore the dismissive replies on here - you feel how you feel, you were there, it's your experience - nobody can define that for you.

seaandsandcastles · 07/10/2021 19:39

It wasn’t abuse. You consented.

Also being into that kind of thing doesn’t make them a misogynist or a bad person; everyone has their own kinks and there’s nothing wrong with that if both people consent.

Original poster
KatieMay123 · 07/10/2021 19:40

The only consent I gave to being insulted was nervous laughter and looking away - I didn't join in with it.

OP posts:
Orangejuicemarathoner · 07/10/2021 19:41

@BiscuitLover09876

As in the fact he was famous meant he would've had more power over you.

Agree aibu is a shirty thread, please remember that. Flowers

no it doesn't. That is crazy. Why does someone having a job that means their name is known give them more power in a sexual relationship? It really doesn't. It just means they have a job.

I think it is utterly bizarre that people are saying this gives a person some sot of personal power

ThePlantsitter · 07/10/2021 19:41

Ugh, it sounds awful. I don't know what 'abuse' is technically defined as but I don't think as a 40yr old man, moderately famous and therefore in a position of relative power, should be shagging a drunk 25 year old and calling her names.

I do think young women have difficulty with the boundaries of what they should accept sexually. After all they are painted by society as sexual collateral so it's easy to feel you should be up for anything sexual as a young woman or there's something wrong with you, because that's where your value lies. I remember behaving similarly as a young woman. It's complex because of course legally these men haven't done anything wrong but when you think of the actual behaviour, it's fucking vile, coercive, and disrespectful at best.

TurnUpTurnip · 07/10/2021 19:42

But you kept meeting him despite him calling you names which would make him think you was ok with it.

Mummy1232016 · 07/10/2021 19:44

@KatieMay123

it's unfair to now try to call it abuse

I'm genuinely open to opinions as I can't decide how to think about it.

I know that if my own daughter was in a £million home of a celebrity and was so drunk she'd been vomiting, I'd hope he wouldn't then take her to bed and start calling her derogatory names!

Part of me wonders that my making it ok for him didn't negate the fact that it was a bit shitty of him in the first place.

You’d also hope you’re daughter wouldn’t choose to continue to meet this person…but you did
fallfallfall · 07/10/2021 19:45

I get the impression it’s a type of kink. Obviously one he’s into but not you.
He should have asked you if you were okay with this type of sex act.
Likewise you could have mentioned that your not into rough sex.

Original poster
KatieMay123 · 07/10/2021 19:45

But you kept meeting him despite him calling you names which would make him think you was ok with it

I naively thought his invitations to dinner etc meant he was getting to (or might) genuinely like me more

OP posts:
Original poster
KatieMay123 · 07/10/2021 19:46

If I'd had better self-esteem I would have seen all this I think!

OP posts: