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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

Was this abusive or was I just stupid?

123 replies

KatieMay123 · 07/10/2021 17:50

Some years ago I was very casually 'seeing' a minor celebrity who has been and still appears on TV occasionally.

He was late 30s, I was mid-20s and unemployed. I was in a bad space and living alone following a weird breakup.

The first time we had sex I was extremely drunk but consented.
Immediately and entirely out of the blue he began calling me derogatory, misogynistic, women-hating names during sex but I laughed it off as I didn't want to cause a scene. It was painful and angry, like being stabbed. I pretended to enjoy it.

We met up several more times, always ending in sex and always the same. I carried on because I hoped he'd grow to like me.

He let me know exactly what he thought of me by telling me I would never meet his parents or anyone else important in his life.

Finally I didn't hear from him for a while and I moved on.

It wasn't until some years later that I realised how wrong this all was. The reality probably obscured by being in thrall.

I would have probably not let these memories bother me so much, but the fact that he has used his profile to raise £100,000s for women's charities astounds me.

Perhaps it's because he feels guilty. Perhaps it's because he wishes to portray himself as a nice family man.

I haven't ever told anyone IRL the full details. I know he was seeing other people at the time so there will most likely be people out there with similar stories.

Was this abusive, or was I stupid? Probably both!

OP posts:
Orangejuicemarathoner · 07/10/2021 19:49

It was clearly an unhappy relationship that left a bad taste in your mouth. You are not happy with his behaviour or your own.

(That doesn't make it abusive though)

I hope you are in a happier relationship now

Flowers
Original poster
KatieMay123 · 07/10/2021 19:50

And I suppose I thought the more he gets to know me, the less he'll think of me as a slut

Stupid and sad indeed!

OP posts:
beastlyslumber · 07/10/2021 19:51

Yes of course he was abusive. He literally abused you. He called you hateful names and that's how he got off. He told you you weren't good enough to meet his family. You were vulnerable and he used you as an emotional punching bag, and sexualised his abuse of you for his own enjoyment. He sounds like a complete misogynist.

People like that don't change, OP. They only get worse. His charity work will be a good cover, a good way of gaslighting women like you who will be thinking, "it must be something wrong with me, he's such a good person, look at all the money he gives to charity."

I'm sorry this happened to you, OP. It sounds awful and very destructive to your self-esteem and sense of yourself. What a horrible, and abusive, man he is.

Ohsugarhoneyicetea · 07/10/2021 19:52

It sounds like just one more lesson on the road to realising what many many men are, disgusting two faced scumbags who sexually enjoy terror and pain in women. And when you are young and naïve you don't realise what's happening, and what the long term implications are to your self esteem.

Yes he abused his power and position to treat you like that. As for consent - were you asked before it happened can I verbally abuse and belittle you while I'm having sex with you? Of course not. Would you have agreed? I doubt it. These scum aren't interested in consent, they're interested in victims who young, vulnerable, naïve etc to get away with treating another human like a wank sock. And girls bought up rom coms and disney lies, persist thinking well soon he will start to care and appreciate me. When often the violence just escalates. Name and shame him.

girlmom21 · 07/10/2021 19:53

@Joolsin

I totally disagree with most other pps, this was most definitely abusive and definitely not normal either. He was an older man in a powerful position and he took advantage of that, op.
She was in her mid-20s. He wasn't an older man who'd groomed her or anything. He wasn't in a position of power - he was a minor celebrity, nothing more.
toocold54 · 07/10/2021 19:55

I naively thought his invitations to dinner etc meant he was getting to (or might) genuinely like me more

There are millions of people who’ve done and felt exactly the same. You were young and even though you still feel uncomfortable about it it probably taught you a good lesson on how to choose decent men.

I think it’s really important to teach young girls how to spot a decent man and respect themselves enough to expect a man to show respect to them.

beastlyslumber · 07/10/2021 19:56

Can people please stop telling OP that she consented to being abused.

He never said to her, "can I abuse you during sex?" He just did it, and she felt she had to go along with it. That it wouldn't be acceptable to say no, or to assert any boundaries.

That's not consent. That is coercion.

I agree with pp, might be a good idea to move the thread to relationships where you'll find more women who actually know what they're talking about and aren't big into victim-blaming.

MissChanandlerBong81 · 07/10/2021 19:57

I'm going to go against the grain and say yes it was abusive. There are some things that happen in our lives that years later hit us like a locomotive and we realise just how fucked up it actually was - this sounds like one such instance. Youth, coercion, low self-esteem / self-worth and a low mood aren't a healthy mix and can leave someone wide open to all sorts of nefarious things.

I agree with this and I think using misogynistic abuse during sex without explicitly establishing that the other person is into that is absolutely abusive.

PollyPepper · 07/10/2021 20:01

I'm so dissapointed in some of these replies. I hope you're OK OP

lemmein · 07/10/2021 20:04

I'm honestly shocked by some of the replies on here - I read comments on FB like the ones above all the time, genuinely thought MN was better than that.

'It's unfair to now call it abuse'

Seriously? The OP can call it whatever she wants - it's her experience, her feelings - who exactly is it unfair to? She's not gone to the papers, she hasn't reported it - this man is still walking about pretending to be a decent guy; who exactly is it unfair to that the OP is questioning the experience?

And the poster who said 'I'm not sure why you're even mentioning it!' Disgusting. It's an anonymous board, the OP wanted to unpick her feelings on it - fuck you making her feel shit about that.

And to all the dicks who say 'oh but you went back' FFS, women return to their abusers every.single.day.

Disgusting replies - I'm sorry OP.

Original poster
KatieMay123 · 07/10/2021 20:05

I'm fine thanks Polly - it's good to hear actually that some people understand and that my niggles haven't been for nothing. I do feel heard so thank you x

OP posts:
CommonRoom · 07/10/2021 20:10

There are some seriously awful and really ignorant posts on here.

OF COURSE celebrities are powerful people!! Even 'minor' ones. It's extremely odd to think that they are not.

Celebrities of all types have been abusing their power since forever.

Abuse is abuse. If he abused you then he was abusive.

TurnUpTurnip · 07/10/2021 20:10

@KatieMay123

But you kept meeting him despite him calling you names which would make him think you was ok with it

I naively thought his invitations to dinner etc meant he was getting to (or might) genuinely like me more

It’s like when women sleep with men hoping it will make them for for her, it rarely works.
Original poster
KatieMay123 · 07/10/2021 20:13

I don't think I would name & shame.

His output over the past few years has been very much 'misogyny is bad' so it'd be a case of "why's she dragging that up, everyone makes mistakes, I've changed"

OP posts:
Feelslikealot · 07/10/2021 20:13

Wow you're messed up.

How the fuck am i messed up? I said only the op knows whether she consented or not, or whether she was too drunk to consent. Which is true. She was there, we weren't.

beastlyslumber · 07/10/2021 20:14

@KatieMay123

The only consent I gave to being insulted was nervous laughter and looking away - I didn't join in with it.
And he would have known very well that wasn't any kind of "enthusiastic consent". If he'd thought you were liking and getting off on it, he would have stopped. Your upset and humiliation is what he was seeking and enjoying, and if he hadn't been seeing you humiliated by that, he would have escalated to something more.

He will now, almost certainly, have escalated his sexual abuse, and any woman getting involved with him now is very likely to be extremely damaged by the experience. He's using his charity work as a cover and a way to gaslight. He wants women to think, "it must be my fault he's like this, I must deserve it, I'm stupid, I'm overreacting. He can't be an abuser, look at all the money he gives to charity."

ABCeasyasdohrayme · 07/10/2021 20:16

I got into a lot of very dodgy situations as a teen/early 20s.

There is a certain type of man, much like the guy you describe, who seem to know who is vulnerable and who they are able to manipulate.

He completely took advantage of you, that's for sure, and he definitely manipulated you.

Its absolutely fine for people to have kinks, and share those kinks with their partner, but the key issue is consent.

He used you in a way that he wanted to without asking your consent first, usually when couple explore this there is a conversation before and then there a lot of care for both parties afterwards, neither of which you had.

I fully understand the way that you feel, and why you need to find a way to come to terms with this. If labelling it as abuse helps you, them that's what you should call it.

Remember this was entirely about him, and absolutely nothing to do with who you are as a person. His treatment of you does not determine your worth Flowers

Original poster
KatieMay123 · 07/10/2021 20:17

If he'd thought you were liking and getting off on it, he would have stopped. Your upset and humiliation is what he was seeking and enjoying

I've never thought of it like that. That helps a great deal, thank you

OP posts:
PlanDeRaccordement · 07/10/2021 20:20

Can people please stop telling OP that she consented to being abused. He never said to her, "can I abuse you during sex?" He just did it, and she felt she had to go along with it. That it wouldn't be acceptable to say no, or to assert any boundaries.

She mimicked enthusiastic consent. She stated in her OP “I pretended to enjoy it”

I don’t see any coercion. For something to be coercion the perpetrator has to be reasonably aware through verbal or nonverbal cues that the other person doesn’t want or doesn’t like whatever it is. With OP pretending to enjoy it every time they had sex, how could he possibly have been aware?

I can’t call anyone under these circumstances abusive.

KTheGrey · 07/10/2021 20:22

I don't feel you did give informed consent to this, because he didn't tell you he was into verbal abuse during sex and ask if you were. He sounds like a creepy type with a laundry list of issues with women.

Original poster
KatieMay123 · 07/10/2021 20:23

I pretended to enjoy the sex, not the name-calling.

OP posts:
DrManhattan · 07/10/2021 20:25

I remember this on sex and the city.

RosiePosieDozy · 07/10/2021 20:25

It was abusive and not normal. I'm guessing it was names like 'slag'. Some women and men enjoy being called these names when having sex.

You obviously didn't. He must have been able to tell. Having sex with someone who you know isn't enjoying it? So wrong. He isn't a nice person and was definitely abusive.

Original poster
KatieMay123 · 07/10/2021 20:26

On reflection, his issues with women seemed to be a heavy use of hardcore porn and being angry with women who had rejected him earlier in life. Also quite a class snob.

OP posts:
Orangejuicemarathoner · 07/10/2021 20:27

@CommonRoom

There are some seriously awful and really ignorant posts on here.

OF COURSE celebrities are powerful people!! Even 'minor' ones. It's extremely odd to think that they are not.

Celebrities of all types have been abusing their power since forever.

Abuse is abuse. If he abused you then he was abusive.

this is just such rubbish

No, it isn't ignorant to say being a celebratory does not give you power.

In fact I find it incredibly ignorant and snobby to say that it does.

I don't think the OP was used any more than she was using.

It wasn't a good relationship. It finished very quickly. It was not abusive, at least nothing the OP has said would put it into the "abusive" category.

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