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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

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Original poster

AIBU to buy DS's maths workbook and let him go through it with a calculator?

108 replies

TamponSupport · 05/10/2021 11:03

DS is 11 and struggles in maths. I suspect dyscalculia but the school say not and it's because he has ASD. They will not let him use a calculator until he is at secondary school, whereas I remember having one when I was 9!
He can't hold numbers in his head and mixes up place value.
After another batch of count the petals (one petal; 10 petals to a flower; ten flowers to a bunch) which he keeps getting wrong and has resulted into two days of tantrums and screen time bans, I think he is also bored with it and hates that he can't do it. We've tried writing it down, but he has difficulty with getting everything into he right columns.

I also think he's been very limited in his exposure to maths because the TA won't move on to the next topic until he has learnt the one he has done. then spends so long on the next topic he's forgotten the one he did before and they have to start from the beginning again

Would it be totally crazy to buy the school books, and let him go through them at home with a calculator so he can see that a) being able to count in your head is not the be all and end all and b) there is more interesting stuff out there than petal counting?

YANBU buy the damned book
YABU the TA knows what's she's doing

OP posts:

girlmom21 · 05/10/2021 11:06

Buy the book. In the real world he can use a calculator.

But if you know his tantrums are because he's struggling, stop punishing him for them.

Original poster

TamponSupport · 05/10/2021 11:08

But if you know his tantrums are because he's struggling, stop punishing him for them.

Yes and no. If I let him have screen time before it's finished, he will never do any of his homework. The deal has always been homework, then screens. It's not so much of a ban as him not having done his part of the deal to get them.

OP posts:

lilyboleyn · 05/10/2021 11:12

If you buy the book he will be more bored and misbehave in class.
The TA bally well should be staying on topic until he’s learnt it. What’s the point in doing something if he doesn’t learn?
When I taught in private school we had parents buy the book. The children got the answers right because they remembered the answers from doing them at home. They did not learn the correct calculation policies and therefore their parents had done them a disservice.
Buy a different book. Work on calculation strategies at home. Your original plan is flawed.

HerNameIsIncontinentiaButtocks · 05/10/2021 11:15

Perhaps do a small section of a workbook with a calculator, to show that it's all possible and there's a rhythm and a process to doing it.

For god's sake do not go through the whole book, otherwise ^^ as lilyboleyn says he won't learn how to do it, which is the entire point of the exercise.

Plotato · 05/10/2021 11:16

Fine to do maths together at home wuth a calculator. The primary maths curriculum doesn't include calculator use any more, that's why he won't be using one at school.

Noogar · 05/10/2021 11:17

Could you buy a different book?

WhiskyXray · 05/10/2021 11:27

The TA knows what she is doing. Maths knowledge is incremental. You can't do fractions without knowing your times tables. You can't do angles if you can't grasp that 360 is four times as big as 90... etc. So you have to master things in order.

It's great you want to help him. I'd request a meeting with the teacher and possibly the SEN coordinator for advice on how you can do so. Your son might be assisted by using cuisinere rods as they are quite visual and fun?

You can often pick up random maths books in charity shops. Different styles / pictures can grab the child's interest. Sometimes just a casual look through at bedtime goes down well. Always end on something easy that the child can do so they feel good about themselves, and more confident.

My child struggles with maths and reward charts really help- a page of exercises meaning a tick on her chart, 100 ticks means a present from Amazon. She will work through stuff without tears if she knows her effort /time will be recognised with an eventual reward.

northbacchus · 05/10/2021 11:28

Would he do well with one of the sites that has more game-style ways of learning? Screen time whilst learning, make it more fun for him.

Original poster

TamponSupport · 05/10/2021 11:45

The TA knows what she is doing.
I could write n essay on this TA unfortunately and I'm not sure that would be the conclusion.

🤣🤣🤣 Your son might be assisted by using cuisinere rods as they are quite visual and fun?
Or they might be absolutely no use whatsoever!

Always end on something easy that the child can do so they feel good about themselves, and more confident.
3+5 is not always 8.....

reward charts really help- a page of exercises meaning a tick on her chart, 100 ticks means a present from Amazon. She will work through stuff without tears if she knows her effort /time will be recognised with an eventual reward.
Reward charts don't work. They're too stressful, upsetting and make him feel ashamed every time he looks at one. He also has no concept of doing something now to get a reward in a few weeks time.

Would he do well with one of the sites that has more game-style ways of learning? Screen time whilst learning, make it more fun for him.
Yes, but it's very hit and miss. We do this too.

If you buy the book he will be more bored and misbehave in class.
The TA bally well should be staying on topic until he’s learnt it.
He has been doing tables, addition and subtraction for 5.5 years now. I don't think he could get more bored with it. Is there not a point where you say "we have the technology to help you with this, so have a go"?

OP posts:

PiglingBland1 · 05/10/2021 11:48

Is a tutor an option for him?
Do a placement test for the good and the beautiful math. It's American and Christian (the math is very easy to skip over Christianstuff), the reason I suggest it is because it's games based and PDF is free for grade 1-5.
Just don't print money pages or cross out dollar sign and put £.
It's a homeschool curriculum but I'd say better alternative to a workbook and a calculator, more fun too

user1469544430 · 05/10/2021 11:50

Fine. Don't take any advice and just wait until one person agrees with you. Then do what you wanted anyway.

RantyAunty · 05/10/2021 11:57

Use coins for counting and grouping.

Looking at pictures in a book isn't the same as having real objects to work with.

Testingprof · 05/10/2021 11:57

Don’t do it. Is this mental maths? Even if it is, encourage him to write down the numbers instead of holding them in his head. Work on mechanisms that help him, even in senior school he won’t be able to use a calculator for basic maths.

Original poster

TamponSupport · 05/10/2021 11:58

Don't take any advice I'm not sure that I would be doing wrong to not try to make an already tired child really upset and ashamed of himself at bedtime like I would if I were to follow this advice:
Sometimes just a casual look through at bedtime goes down well.

Will have a look at that placement test. Thanks.

OP posts:

Hawkins001 · 05/10/2021 12:03

From the sounds of the current measures, i d ask if nothing ventured nothing gained so to speak ?

Original poster

TamponSupport · 05/10/2021 12:04

Is this mental maths? Even if it is, encourage him to write down the numbers instead of holding them in his head.
I do this at home, but he's not allowed paper for his working at school. So e.g. in a times table test he can't write out the times table somewhere, he has to count every single one out for each question.

OP posts:

WhiskyXray · 05/10/2021 12:12

The thing is, your kid needs to keep doing the addition and subtraction till they get it, or they risk being shortchanged every time they buy a bottle of milk or buy a bus ticket. Carrying a calculator around isn't going to be practical.

Sorry my "look through at bedtime" comment upset you. My child, who does have SEN, is more receptive at that time for whatever reason, and she does better on her spelling tests in particular if we go over them really quickly after her story. I suspect it's because she is delaying lights out.

TheWoleb · 05/10/2021 12:14

Well, they arent allowed to write down the times tables. Those are started right at the beginning of school and they need to learn them by heart.
If they dont learn the times tables then all their other work takes twice as long because instead of just knowing the multiplication stage of the whole calculation, they have to stop and do it first. That's why they want the class to just know the times tables answers.

If he genuinely cannot do it, rather than just isnt bothering to learn, then the school are failing him by refusing to help or assess for what could be causing it. He should be allowed a different approach, extra equipment like a calculator etc if he cannot do it the way neuro typical kids can.

You need to have a meeting with the school and get them to take this seriously. If he has an additional need around maths then they must adjust for that.

Tal45 · 05/10/2021 12:18

The school are in no way qualified to say he doesn't have dyscalculia unless they have had an ed psych in to assess him and they couldn't do that without speaking to you. It really pisses me off that they think they are entitled to make these judgements especially as asd is linked to dyspraxia/dyslexia/dyscalculia etc - mine has asd and dyspraxia.

I think it would be more beneficial for you to get him a diagnosis if you can, you'd have to pay privately so I don't know if that's a possibility. I would give him a calculator but I'd get a different book. I'd also read up a lot on it if you haven't already and find out if there is anything recommended to help. If doing this work at home is leading to melt downs then I would leave that even if it is homework and do your own thing. Tell the school he is not coping with the work if it is homework and he is supposed to do it.

PeonyTime · 05/10/2021 12:18

Do it, but not the school workbooks. Use a different brand.
Personally, we like CPG but have a look around and see what might work.

From,

A dyslexic who still uses her fingers to add and do times tables, but has a job in a numerate discipline.

TheOrigRights · 05/10/2021 12:20

After another batch of count the petals (one petal; 10 petals to a flower; ten flowers to a bunch) which he keeps getting wrong

Do I understand correctly - your 11 year old son can't count in 10s?

That would indicate a significant problem with maths, and require significant input from teaching staff.

Original poster

TamponSupport · 05/10/2021 12:22

Carrying a calculator around isn't going to be practical.
Our teachers said that to us and now we pretty much all carry calculators wherever we go

With the use of a calculator, he would be able to move on to learning to processes of other maths topics and use the calculator to just get the answers. It isnt cheating or anything because he still need to learn the process and know which numbers to put in etc.
This is the direction in which I'm thinking. I have tried everything, but he still can't tell you what 2x6 is without counting. We practice several times a week, I do extra maths with him, he has iPad games and computer games and a homeschool maths program. We've got angry with him, we've been understanding, we've tried to back off and leave him with a book, we've made him write them out countless times, we've tried all the objects etc, even smarties and if he gets it right, he can eat them. We've tried bribery. He's still pretty much at the stage the rest of the class were 5 years ago...

OP posts:

woodhill · 05/10/2021 12:27

@TamponSupport

Is this mental maths? Even if it is, encourage him to write down the numbers instead of holding them in his head. I do this at home, but he's not allowed paper for his working at school. So e.g. in a times table test he can't write out the times table somewhere, he has to count every single one out for each question.

That's ridiculous. Writing in rough will embed it

We encourage students to write out tables on scrap paper to work things out

whosaidtha · 05/10/2021 12:28

If you do this he isn't learning what he's supposed to be learning. You may as well just tell him the answer. It will cause problems as he moves through the school and on to secondary. He won't get through his maths exam if he hasn't mastered the basics. Even the calculator paper. I'm afraid there's no shortcuts. Try a different book but not the one he's doing in school.

DeepaBeesKit · 05/10/2021 12:29

Has he got a working memory issue?

Can he recite or rote learn the tables at all or no? He clearly has an issue if he can't remember 2 x 6 at age 11.

Can you try approaching the concepts differently - link it to his interests? Eg if he liked cars, how many wheels on a red car, yellow car, and blue car (4 x3). Thing of a practical thing he likes that involves ten of something, might that help him grasp it?

Practise with sweets at home. Chocolate buttons etc, put 20 in front of him and help him split into two

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