To intervene with someone's parenting skills?

[parentinghelp1]

Has anyone ever had a situation where they think someone close to them is failing as a parent?

Do you intervene when you feel the children are at risk of having poor outcomes when they're older (they aren't in danger but I feel they could have issues as adults)

I don't have kids so I know mentioning anything is going to lead to 'you don't know anything because you haven't got kids'

What do you do? Just let people carry on potentially hurting their children and them growing up hurt because of their childhood?

I'm no way is this a judgmental post - I am just worried for the children.

It makes me sad.

Also very scared of ruining relationships by intervening.

Is there anyway you an very gently say to the person 'Are you okay? It's just I notice you seem quickly frustrated by the Dcs and I am wondering if you are feeling stressed and overwhelmed, is there anything I can do to help?'.

It might lead them to asking for help, or even just becoming more aware of how they interact as sometimes you get into a groove of annoyance when things are really stressful and your resilience is low.

It sounds to me that your gut is telling you something isn’t right and I would always go with my gut feeling.. maybe explore it and if there’s anything you feel should be report it do it anonymously. You sound like a good person l. Xxx

Impossible to judge from what you are saying here.

You are aware that failing to discipline children is child abuse and neglect?

You might be right, or you might just have no idea what you are talking about

@5BlackDoors

Is there anyway you an very gently say to the person 'Are you okay? It's just I notice you seem quickly frustrated by the Dcs and I am wondering if you are feeling stressed and overwhelmed, is there anything I can do to help?'.

It might lead them to asking for help, or even just becoming more aware of how they interact as sometimes you get into a groove of annoyance when things are really stressful and your resilience is low.

That sounds like an incredibly patronising and ignorant thing for someone without children to say to someone with children. I doubt your relationship would survive that

@parentinghelp1

Ok an examples - constant shouting and I have seen physical situations, never an actual punch or slap but just unnecessary physical force.

This is abuse.

Just because it is not physical doesn't mean it is not abuse, and if your instincts are telling you that this is damaging to the children then it probably is.

Children are completely dependent on the adults in their lives - ALL adults in their lives - to safeguard them and protect them.

As an adult in these children's lives, you have a responsibility to try and make things better for them.

This is absolutely your business, and you absolutely need to intervene.

Look up emotional abuse -
www.nspcc.org.uk/what-is-child-abuse/types-of-abuse/emotional-abuse/

If you have concerns then you can ring the NSPCC for advice. It won't go to social services, you can just have a conversation.

Please get involved - these children need a responsible adult to help them.

This would worry me too. Are the parents feeling overwhelmed? Are they struggling?

Also - "unnecessary physical force" is physical. Not being a slap or punch doesn't mean it's not physical abuse.

Please seek advice.

Can you offer to take the kids for a while each week? Give the parents some respite and have some.

You could also anonymously put some parenting books through their door.

NSPCC advice line - 0808 800 5000

Babysit and have fun with the kids. It will also enable you to keep a close eye on the kids welfare and get help if needed.

You can confidentially ring the nspcc and get their advice. They know legislation, processes and can advise on how to help. They will have a good grasp of when action needs to be taken

SummerInSun

Do you have the sort of relationship with the children where you can be someone they go to for extra support/comfort/nurturing? Give them some of what they aren't getting from their parents?

Also, do you have any sense of why the parents are so stressed and shouty? That doesn't sound like a deliberate choice of parenting style, but rather people who are super stressed. Are they under financial pressure, in very stressful jobs or at risk of unemployment, for example? Do they just never get a break? Just wondering if you could identify the underlying cause and help with that?

@parentinghelp1 I agree with SummerInSun.

If he / she is a friend then perhaps arrange a drink with them, away from the children? You could just 'check-in' to find out they are, how they are doing? Do not mention the children at all.

Parenting is VERY, very challenging at times. Some people struggle more than others. Your friend may be depressed; may be struggling with the constant demands that having children brings; with having lost her 'freedom' of life before.
With respect, unless you've been through it yourself you wouldn't appreciate anything that they are going through.

Never, never criticise. The friend will simple shut-down and that will be that.

Perhaps you could offer to help? to babysit etc. Go for walks with her and the children? Perhaps she's just missing adult company and conversation?

You are kind OP to worry about a little one. I will say, I was an excellent parent…before I had kids!! Now my advice would be that unless it is abuse (physical or mental) don’t say anything BUT you can lead by example. Behave with this child appropriately and hopefully their parent will follow suit.

The Burnout We Can't Talk About: Parent Burnout
New research demonstrates parental burnout has serious consequences.

www.google.com.au/amp/s/www.psychologytoday.com/au/blog/targeted-parenting/201909/the-burnout-we-cant-talk-about-parent-burnout%3famp

Self-Care IS Child Care:
So many times, when I’m teaching parenting classes, I ask the participants what their self-care was that week. I get responses like this:
Self-care? Who has time for that? I am so consumed dealing with my son. Besides, he needs so much. How can I justify taking time away from something he needs, just to pursue something I like?

Based on this research, I ask parents how often they have escape fantasies, and all agree that they fantasize about their parenting load being lightened. Because this is an interactive class, we’ve already all spoken about the times that stress has led to less-than-optimal parenting strategies, like yelling, or a harsh consequence.

@parentinghelp1 The above is copy and pasted from above link. Before I became a parent I had underestimated just how hard it can be especially when there are additional stressors or lack of support. I previously had a lot of experience with children and families and thought I knew what it would be like to a parent. Then I became one. 🤣

Family and the bonds we have to one another are sacred. No two families are the same. People outside of the immediate family are not going to fully understand or appreciate the family dynamics.

If these parents love their kids then be a supportive friend and help them out. And I suggest practical support. Babysit, cook them a nice meal so they can have a night off, invite mum to a spa day, lend a listening ear where you just listen and empathise and refrain from trying to solve their problems. Sometimes it’s nice just to be heard and understood.

Also, notice all the good stuff your friends do as parents and acknowledge it. Positive feedback builds people up. This works for the kids as well. Acknowledge the kids when they make an effort or do something well.

I think you need to consider the specific circumstances.

What do you mean with shouting?
The mother going outside on the terrace and shouting to the boy in the garden "I TOLD YOU TO LEAVE THE TREE ALONE, 1000 TIMES!!! STOP IT!!!"
Or is it them shouting nasty things to them undermining their confidence?

What do you mean with unnecessary force?
Is the mother wrestling the toddler while changing the nappy or holding him strongly by the hand to avoid him running across a busy street?
Or something more serious?

Agree with LovinThisStuff and BrainPotter too

@SummerInSun

Do you have the sort of relationship with the children where you can be someone they go to for extra support/comfort/nurturing? Give them some of what they aren't getting from their parents?

Also, do you have any sense of why the parents are so stressed and shouty? That doesn't sound like a deliberate choice of parenting style, but rather people who are super stressed. Are they under financial pressure, in very stressful jobs or at risk of unemployment, for example? Do they just never get a break? Just wondering if you could identify the underlying cause and help with that?

I love this. One of the most beautiful pieces of advice I’ve ever seen on here.

Well you have to inform the authorities. You would be deemed complicit if you knew things were happening that harmed a child, did nothing but then blabbed about it all over social media - which is a public space.

If a child was being hurt there would be no question, the friendship with the parent is over.

The way to do it is to befriend and offer help. Nobody is going to take criticism well, especially is they are super stressed, overcrowded, living in poverty or not getting enough sleep. So be cheerful, positive and praise the good. Offer tips without being condescending , send your kids to take their kids out to
Play keeping the kids busy and happy. If they refuse help, do not push it because you will alienate them.

parentinghelp1

Ok an examples - constant shouting and I have seen physical situations, never an actual punch or slap but just unnecessary physical force.

OP it’s great that you are asking for thoughts about this and you care enough to do that.

What you’ve described here is likely to lead to psychological difficulties if it’s constant, however, even as a professional with many years experience I would be unsure with this whether to refer to SS. I’d certainly be finding out more and I’d certainly discuss the option of more support with the family and see if they would be willing to get support from SS (SS are there to support families to make helpful changes not to tell them off and children are only removed as a last resort). SS support a wide range of families including families that are loving but are just having a hard time parenting. The fear many people have is that children will be taken away but this is always a very last resort and there is usually a very long process of trying, and failing, to effect changes before that happens. There are also low level teams within SS that aren’t Child Protection teams but support services that offer some great help, like parenting groups.

This is a grey area in terms of whether I would HAVE to refer to SS so there is no wonder you are uncertain what to do for the best. Use of physical force is a tricky one. Picking up a screaming toddler under your arm to get them to the safety of a car seat is one thing, shoving a child in anger is another. But all parents can react in ways that are out of character and unhelpful to their child. No parent is perfect. There is nothing like having a child to find buttons that can be pushed that you never knew you had! But parents have a responsibility to work on this if it’s damaging to their child of course.

As a friend of the family you are in a difficult position. In your shoes I think I would call the NSPCC to anonymously (you don’t need to give your name or theirs) get advice. That way you can describe what is happening in more detail.

You can also be a huge protective factor for the DC by being someone who takes an interest in them, gets to know them, bigs them up, shows them that even though you don’t need to, you want to spend time with them and care about them. Just one person in a child’s life can make a big difference.

Good luck. It’s great you are thinking about this and not just accepting it without a further thought. Sorry you’ve been given a bit of a hard time here.

Are you friends with the parents? Are you friends with, or in a position to befriend the children and be an 'unofficial aunty' character, a reliable adult outside the immediate family, in their lives?

Most people will benefit more from friendship than judgement.

If someone is shouting, using force etc as a parent it sounds as if they’re angry generally, not just in the moment. Can you ask them if they are ok and or need some support? Ultimately If the parent is ok the child probably will be too. It sounds like the parent is very unhappy

@SummerInSun is spot on, I think. People rarely set out to parent like this. Sounds like they're giving from an empty cup. However, regardless of the reason, bringing children up in a constant cycle of negativity, criticism and blame is emotional abuse. I've often thought myself that a large part of parenting is plastering on a smile, pretending some fake enthusiasm and giving them love and security even while everything else is going to shit around you. That's one of the most precious things you can give your kids but of course it requires you to have some emotional resources left yourself.

I once saw a parent behaving in this way in the playground with their little boy. Everything was his fault. The exasperation with him was palpable. The smallest misbehaviour was met not with a gentle reminder not to do it but being physically dragged away and told he would never have any friends. I found it very sad .

@parentinghelp1 I have a friend who provides everything her children need materially but emotionally is a disaster. I've tried to intervene but it falls on deaf ears. Her children are crying out for her love and attention but she can't see it. I don't know where it will end but I can't see it ending well.

@parentinghelp1

Ok an examples - constant shouting and I have seen physical situations, never an actual punch or slap but just unnecessary physical force.

I think you have to be clear about what is happening in your own mind, as what you describe could easily be abuse, and therefore need to be flagged.

There is shouting and there is shouting - the volume of the voice is less of a deal than what is said. Also what do you mean by unnecessary physical force? This sounds concerning.