Cheated out of inheritance.

[Watzzap]

Sorry this might be quite long. My late dh, who passed away 10 months ago, had 1 sibling. Both he and sibling had POA for fil. I know fil did not have a Will. Fil was in a Care Home as could not manage at home. Prior to him going into Care my dh and I were first contacts for fil on Community Alarm System and visited him every day. Saying this to show we did help out and have had a lot of input with Fil. We also regularly visited fil in his Care Home.

Fil passed away 6 months ago. As my dh had also died, sil organised funeral and sorted out finances. I did not expect to receive anything from my fil’s estate, but I expected my dcs to receive their DF’s share. However, apparently fil had very little to leave, therefore my dc’s share was only £1k each! When I asked sil what had happened to the rest of fil’s money she said that was all that was left after funeral costs etc.! For background, Sil has solely dealt with fil’s finances for quite a few years, however both she and my dh were named on his main account as had joint POA, until my dh died. I also know sil has withdrawn and hid money in the past, so fil got his Care Home place paid for (needed to be less than £23250). She also took his car and gave it to her son. I also know that fil had numerous Life Insurances etc. My dh was very laid back and just let her get on with things and never said anything about how his ds dealt with fil’s finances.

Fil’s funeral costs would be around £3/4K. It now looks like she has kept all the money to herself from the account she (and my dh, prior to his death) was named on and paid all expenses from his other account, which was solely in his name. Even taking this into consideration, with his other insurances, there should have been a lot more than the £6k she says is all that was left!

Is there anything I can do? As I said, I do not want anything, but feel that my 3 dcs have been cheated out of their inheritance.

@DameAlyson

If there is no will your children have no right to his money, who ever is next of kin gets it all! Very shitty of her to take it and run but unfortunately thats life!

RTFT! FGS!

Yes thank you I did hence why I'm telling the OP there is no chance as there is no will 🙃

I found this out the hard way

If any two people have a joint account, this account does not become part of an estate if one of the named parties dies. The account is simply frozen until proof of death is shown, at such time the surviving account hold owns the account.
How much total do you thing your SIL transferred over? As it could be the whole amount simply gets swallowed by back paying any money the government.
Also if your FIL signed his car over, which he must have to transfer the title, you have no claim on it.
The insurance company's should be named on the bank statements, you can contact them with proof of death and they will provide information, but if someone , I.E MIL, then DH and SIL were named, she could have been given them, because unless your children were named the company are just doing as FIL asked.

@DameAlyson

The number of people stating as fact that only the living child would inherit if there was no will is quite staggering. Why do people state facts if they don’t actually know?!

Especially as we're now seven pages in and plenty of people have stated the actual position, with links to reputable websites. Do none of these people RTFT before posting?

Seeking free legal advice is hit-and-miss even on the legal board. On AIBU you won't get much more than witless drivel, posts that's start with things like " I would imagine the legal position is ...", and pearl-clutching finger wagging!

You are incorrect. The children would receive their parents share split equally between them
But the children are receiving a share. It’s just that the OP assumes this to be an incorrect amount because the SIL has committed fraud. If the OP pursues a legal route to get her children’s correct inheritance (if OP is right), surely she’s going to have to admit to knowing about the previous fraud that she did nothing about? Sounds likely to be not a sensible move.

Yes thank you I did hence why I'm telling the OP there is no chance as there is no will

If you'd read the thread, or googled, you would know this is wrong.

Yes thank you I did hence why I'm telling the OP there is no chance as there is no will 🙃

So the problem is not your reading, but your comprehension?

@LookAtMoiPloise

Sorry. Meant to quote: Pretty low to dob her in now that it won't come back on you/your family

Have to agree with this

If your FIL was at all bothered about leaving his grandchildren something then he would have made his wishes complicit - ie if he had the maximum in savings allowed before having to self fund and hived off the rest then he could have made specific provision for the children knowing that the SIL already had the rest "hidden" in her bank accounts - he didn't do that

he should have done it since your DH passed away before him- he didn't

No-one has been 'cheated' out of anything. Horrible, grasping culture that we have become. Perhaps tell your children about the person he was/what he achieved/if he was kind rather than trying to grab any money. URGH.

@Haffiana
Do you not understand the intestacy rules?

Yes thank you I did hence why I'm telling the OP there is no chance as there is no will
OP explained she is in Scotland. Grandchildren do inherit even without a Will.

@TyrannysaurusXXrightshoarder

Yes thank you I did hence why I'm telling the OP there is no chance as there is no will OP explained she is in Scotland. Grandchildren do inherit even without a Will.

Should have added ‘as they are descendants of an heir’

@Lockheart

If your FIL died intestate (without a will) then your SIL inherits everything outright - assuming FIL wasn't married / didn't have any more children etc.

No cheating here, she's entitled to all of it.

Not according to Citizens' Advice:

Grandchildren and great grandchildren
A grandchild or great grandchild cannot inherit from the estate of an intestate person unless either:

their parent or grandparent has died before the intestate person, or

their parent is alive when the intestate person dies but dies before reaching the age of 18 without having married or formed a civil partnership

In these circumstances, the grandchildren and great grandchildren will inherit equal shares of the share to which their parent or grandparent would have been entitled.

Example: Abdul has two sons, Iqbal and Ismail. Ismail has one daughter, Habiba. Ismail dies when Habiba is two years old. Abdul dies intestate when she is 20. Habiba inherits Ismail's share of Abdul's estate.

@Helenmumoftw0 That there is no will use exactly why the children do have an automatic entitlement when their parent predeceased their grandparent

[quote nimbuscloud]@Haffiana
Do you not understand the intestacy rules?[/quote]
Good grief. Yes I do.

Which bit of:

England & Wales:

The estate is shared equally between the children or their descendants.

"If a son or daughter has already died, their children (the grandchildren of the deceased) inherit in their place."

Or
Scotland:

"The estate is shared equally between the children or their descendants.

If a son or daughter has already died, their children (the grandchildren of the deceased) inherit in their place."

do you not comprehend? Which bit exactly?

Can I just make it clear, the siphoning of any money by my sil was prior to my fil going into Care. I don’t think it would be possible to do this once he was in Care, as there had obviously been SW input into his finances re. how much he has to pay for his Care Home placement. I mentioned all this to show how deceitful my sil has previously been.

For further clarity, the POA for my dh and sil was drawn up by a solicitor while fil was in hospital waiting for placement, therefore my late dh is in no way implicated in any wrongdoing whatsoever. He had nothing to do with his DF’s finances until this time and pretty much still left fil’s finances in the care of his ds after that as well. He looked at his ds through rose tinted glasses and refused to believe she would do anything wrong!

The main reason I posted on here, was about the fact that sil has cheated her dear niece and nephews out of their share of fil’s estate. I was looking for advice on what I can do about this!

Hope this clears things up as I really resent my late dh or myself being virtually accused of fraud!

@TyrannysaurusXXrightshoarder

Yes thank you I did hence why I'm telling the OP there is no chance as there is no will OP explained she is in Scotland. Grandchildren do inherit even without a Will.

It’s not only a Scottish thing. In England the position is the same.

@Watzzap

Can I just make it clear, the siphoning of any money by my sil was prior to my fil going into Care. I don’t think it would be possible to do this once he was in Care, as there had obviously been SW input into his finances re. how much he has to pay for his Care Home placement. I mentioned all this to show how deceitful my sil has previously been.

For further clarity, the POA for my dh and sil was drawn up by a solicitor while fil was in hospital waiting for placement, therefore my late dh is in no way implicated in any wrongdoing whatsoever. He had nothing to do with his DF’s finances until this time and pretty much still left fil’s finances in the care of his ds after that as well. He looked at his ds through rose tinted glasses and refused to believe she would do anything wrong!

The main reason I posted on here, was about the fact that sil has cheated her dear niece and nephews out of their share of fil’s estate. I was looking for advice on what I can do about this!

Hope this clears things up as I really resent my late dh or myself being virtually accused of fraud!

The only thing you can do is seek legal advice, but it can be expensive.

Have you asked your sister in law if she has the grant of confirmation? Is she doing things properly or trying to do it without anything official as a small estate?

There are things that have to be complied with for beneficiaries under 18

If I was you I'd accept the £1k each and shut up.

Once the council finds out hopefully they claim back it all in full.

My mum paid for her care in full in a home. I remember the social worker was livid because we purchased a funeral plan with the money from the sale of her house. She had one insurance policy that paid out £500 when she died.

Just seek legal advice, proper paid for legal advice, in the jurisdiction in which you live. In many European countries grandchildren inheritance occurs when the parent dies, and many people don't make wills because the rules are much clearer (you can't disinherit children/grandchildren) compared with England/Wales so there's no point!

@Haffiana
Apologies. You’re absolutely correct. I meant to @ one of the other posters.

@ParkheadParadise

I find it strange that your FIL didn't have a will. When we applied for POA for my mum it's the one thing her lawyer made sure was up to date.

Sil thought that the Solicitor was going to draw up a Will for fil, when he was drawing up the POA, so don’t know why he didn’t. I just presumed that it was too late to make a Will once the POA was in place, but don’t know if that is true

@3luckystars

Sorry now for this stupid question, but if a person doesn’t make a will, what exactly happens? Is there someone that officially ‘gives out’ or divides up the estate? Officially? I imagine it takes more time and is messy but what actually happens.

In films people go in to see the will being read and it’s often dramatic, but what if the person makes no will?

Sorry again for the stupid question, I suppose I’m lucky to have no experience with any of this, I’m just interested who looked over what happened here. Did the sil just get a letter one day handing everything over to her? What if there was a house etc.

Someone, usually the person first in line to inherit, applies to Court for what are called Letters of Administration. They then distribute the deceased's assets according to Intestacy rules.

It’s a big can of worms. Do you care if confronting her causes a huge rift? That makes a difference to how far you push this.

HNRTT OP but do you know with which firms the FIL's life assurance policies were held? The money diverted prior to death might be difficult to address if your DC have rights to inheriteance in your jurisdiction but the payments of life assurance unless written in trust might offer a recent audit trail. If the sums are significant and your DSIL refuses to provide an accurate statement of account then you may have rights on behalf of DC if the costs would be outweighed by significant insurance policies. It might depend on jurisdiction but your DC might have rights when they turn 18 so might be able to use the audit trail even if you choose not to.

If you don't have copies of policies then do you have access to bank statements to see where direct debit or standing order payments would have been made unless there are paid up policies.

Good luck.