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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Cheated out of inheritance.

247 replies

Watzzap · 03/10/2021 12:52

Sorry this might be quite long. My late dh, who passed away 10 months ago, had 1 sibling. Both he and sibling had POA for fil. I know fil did not have a Will. Fil was in a Care Home as could not manage at home. Prior to him going into Care my dh and I were first contacts for fil on Community Alarm System and visited him every day. Saying this to show we did help out and have had a lot of input with Fil. We also regularly visited fil in his Care Home.

Fil passed away 6 months ago. As my dh had also died, sil organised funeral and sorted out finances. I did not expect to receive anything from my fil’s estate, but I expected my dcs to receive their DF’s share. However, apparently fil had very little to leave, therefore my dc’s share was only £1k each! When I asked sil what had happened to the rest of fil’s money she said that was all that was left after funeral costs etc.! For background, Sil has solely dealt with fil’s finances for quite a few years, however both she and my dh were named on his main account as had joint POA, until my dh died. I also know sil has withdrawn and hid money in the past, so fil got his Care Home place paid for (needed to be less than £23250). She also took his car and gave it to her son. I also know that fil had numerous Life Insurances etc. My dh was very laid back and just let her get on with things and never said anything about how his ds dealt with fil’s finances.

Fil’s funeral costs would be around £3/4K. It now looks like she has kept all the money to herself from the account she (and my dh, prior to his death) was named on and paid all expenses from his other account, which was solely in his name. Even taking this into consideration, with his other insurances, there should have been a lot more than the £6k she says is all that was left!

Is there anything I can do? As I said, I do not want anything, but feel that my 3 dcs have been cheated out of their inheritance.

OP posts:
diddl · 03/10/2021 14:19

"I suspect (but don't know) that the OP's husband would be considered to have accepted any dealings that took place during his lifetime."

I think that you can have more than one person with POA, but they can act individually, so it wouldn't follow that Op's husband knew all that was taken from accounts.

That said, the fact that he was OK to go along with the fraud obviously muddies things & also Op knew & could have reported but didn't makes me think it should all just be left & it's a lesson learned-unfortunately by the kids.

BSideBaby · 03/10/2021 14:19

It sounds as though the entire family were complicit in defrauding the system re: care home fees, so I really don't think pursuing this legally would be very sensible OP.

burnoutbabe · 03/10/2021 14:21

Isn't it an offence to not distribute the estate correctly?

So it's worth one visit to a solicitors to confirm

If no will, the children would get their dads share (so 50%)

What the estate was at death.

Now if that shows no assets there is probably not more to be done unless you report for abuse of the power of attorney. So you need to know roughly what the maximum estate fil may have had (assume no house) and how much had been "stolen" and not spent on his care. Then work out if it's worth challenging based on legal Costs. Or pass the information into the person in charge of POA and let them investigate and pursue a criminal see if desired.

HermioneKipper · 03/10/2021 14:26

I’m so sorry about your DH. Can you speak to a solicitor? Sounds like you may well have a case.

I wouldn’t be able to rest until my DC got their fair share

MadamMedea · 03/10/2021 14:26

Suppose I could always dob her in as I do have evidence (screenshots, copies of documents, bank statements which show money being transferred into her account etc.).

How on Earth do you have copies of her bank statements?!

Cocomarine · 03/10/2021 14:27

[quote Frogsandsheep]@Cocomarine

Maybe snipe at all the compassion lacking arm chair solicitors on this thread instead![/quote]
To be fair, I did that too. See “Sunday lawyers” upthread 😉

Cocomarine · 03/10/2021 14:29

@Watzzap are the 3 life insurances still within their cover term though? He sounds like he was of an age where they would no longer have been.

julieca · 03/10/2021 14:30

My mum was cheated out of any inheritance by her brother. Because the amount was relatively small she was advised that the costs of pursuing this would end up being more than any money he had cheated her out of.

ChicChaos · 03/10/2021 14:30

Suppose I could always dob her in as I do have evidence (screenshots, copies of documents, bank statements which show money being transferred into her account etc.).

Wouldn't that leave no money at all if the estate has to repay the care home fees?

Cailleach1 · 03/10/2021 14:31

A grandchild or great grandchild cannot inherit from the estate of an intestate person unless either their parent or grandparent has died before the intestate person

So a father of two children dies with no will. Estate divided by two. One beneficiary is still alive (SIL) so inherits her share as normal. The other beneficiary (op's late husband) has predeceased his father, so his share is divided between his children as above.

If I were in your shoes op, I don't think I'd want the SIL to go rogue like this. You know best what you want to do in your situation, though.

Cocomarine · 03/10/2021 14:31

What’s stopping you from saying, “SIL, stop taking the piss. We all know there was more money than that, which is why you moved it to the other account.”?

Watzzap · 03/10/2021 14:31

@grapewine

No, because this family has been cheating the system and hiding money so we could all pay for the care. And now are cheating each other, by the looks of it.

'What goes around comes around' comes to mind. If you knew about this and are only interested now because you want money for your children, then I have very little sympathy.

We did not cheat the system, sil did. Yes, I should maybe have reported her, but my dh was very ill for 6 years before he died. He just didn’t want to fall out with his sister, so fell out with me instead, when I said he should do something! Because of his illness, and that it was upsetting him, I kept my mouth shut.

To be clear, we have not benefited at all from any money she may have defrauded. I have just ensured that I have the evidence to show he was not implicated in any of her illegal activities, as I honestly thought these would have been found out!

OP posts:
Cailleach1 · 03/10/2021 14:33

@MadamMedea

Suppose I could always dob her in as I do have evidence (screenshots, copies of documents, bank statements which show money being transferred into her account etc.).

How on Earth do you have copies of her bank statements?!

It may not be the SIL's statements. It could be referring to the FIL's bank statements showing the money being transferred out to the SIL's account.
Frogsandsheep · 03/10/2021 14:34

@Cocomarine

So you did! I missed that comment!

StaplesCorner · 03/10/2021 14:34

So the law in Scotland seems clear - I don't know what everyone is still arguing about. All the OP needs to do now is decide if she wants to bring a solicitor in. As others have said, is it worth it - will new monies coming to light simply be harvested by retrospective care home fees? I'd feel the same as you OP though, she cheated your kids the same way she cheated everyone else.

Cocomarine · 03/10/2021 14:36

[quote Frogsandsheep]@Cocomarine

So you did! I missed that comment![/quote]
@Frogsandsheep sorry you felt singled out when actually I was being a curmudgeonly old fucker to all and sundry 🤣

I did like your “armchair solicitors” comment though 👍🏻

Cailleach1 · 03/10/2021 14:37

@Watzzap, condolences. Your family has been under a lot of stress. Only you can know if you want to do something. Can you get a free consultation with a solicitor, I wonder? If you can establish the simple principle that your children were entitled to your late husband's share, then you'd have that for sure.

WorraLiberty · 03/10/2021 14:38

Suppose I could always dob her in as I do have evidence (screenshots, copies of documents, bank statements which show money being transferred into her account etc.).

Pretty low to dob her in now that it won't come back on you/your family.

Branleuse · 03/10/2021 14:42

@WorraLiberty

Suppose I could always dob her in as I do have evidence (screenshots, copies of documents, bank statements which show money being transferred into her account etc.).

Pretty low to dob her in now that it won't come back on you/your family.

I disagree, although I wouldnt be that concerned as to whether its low or not, considering that she has shown not much consideration to her neices and nephews.
burnoutbabe · 03/10/2021 14:43

Reading the first post again it does sound like the estate had been split between sil and the kids, just that after funeral expenses, it's £2k total, hence kids gets £1k?

But you can confirm that by asking for estate accounts.

PinkiOcelot · 03/10/2021 14:44

I’m very surprised that your SIL has managed to get away with this. I had to provide the council with bank statements going back a year before my Mam was resident in her care home.
What she has done is deprivation of assets if she moved the money less than 7 years of your FIL going in to care. Disgusting really, but I’m guessing she’s actually the tip of the iceberg!

cantkeepawayforever · 03/10/2021 14:44

I think the way forward depends on what the position would be if the family had correctly declared your FIL's assets at the point when he went into the care home.

If all the 'disputed' money would anyway have been spent on care home fees, then all you are doing is being vindictive to your SiL - your children will not benefit any more than they currently are doing.

If, on the other had, had everything been done above board there would still have been significant assets to share, then it would seem worthwhile to fight for what your children should have had.

ChicChaos · 03/10/2021 14:48

The OP's children would lose their inheritance if it's reclaimed due to fraud.

ParkheadParadise · 03/10/2021 14:48

@PinkiOcelot

I’m very surprised that your SIL has managed to get away with this. I had to provide the council with bank statements going back a year before my Mam was resident in her care home. What she has done is deprivation of assets if she moved the money less than 7 years of your FIL going in to care. Disgusting really, but I’m guessing she’s actually the tip of the iceberg!
Same here.
chesirecat99 · 03/10/2021 14:50

Named beneficiary was mil, who died several years ago. I have copies of 3 life insurances, but suspect there is at least 1 more. All life insurances that I know about still stated mil as the beneficiary when dh and sil were made POA.

Things that could have happened so they did not form part of the estate:

The beneficiaries were changed after your MIL's death. This would probably have been advised as there are tax implications if the payout goes to the estate.

Your DH and SIL were named as secondary beneficiaries. I believe when one of the co-beneficiaries has passed away, the life insurance is split between the surviving beneficiaries, ie your SIL. The same would apply if the policy had been changed so they replaced your MIL as co-beneficiaries, as above.

Your SIL changed the policy using her POA after your DH's death so she is the beneficiary.

Your FIL or SIL stopped paying the premiums.

The policies had a cash in value and they were cashed in to pay for your FIL's care or spent by your SIL.

If your FIL had a terminal diagnosis or a diagnosis of a critical illness (if there was critical illness cover), a payout was made before his death and the money was spent.

Unless they were joint policies, so the payout was made when your MIL passed away?

I am in England though and I am basing that on my experience with dealing with life policies for my family, I am not an expert.