To think it’s unfair single-sex schools aren’t an option for many (perhaps even most)?

[patienceandprudence]

I have one single sex state school (and in fact there is only one private) in my county. It is in the county town, which we are not in the catchment for. It would take an hour and half to get to by public transport anyway.

Since it has been proven many times over that girls do better in single sex schools, why on earth aren’t there more options for those of us not in 11+ counties? I think it’s a great shame, and it doesn’t seem to be a thing that’s even being thought about.

@funinthesun19

Terrible idea. Girls should be able to go to state schools without it having implanted in to their heads that they’re in danger unless they go to an all girls school.

And anyway, I thought the responsibility was on boys (the bad ones of course) to change, rather than girls doing all the changing. Surely sending girls to all girls schools just cancels out any progress in changing male behaviour.

Yes the girls should be able to go to a mixed sexed school without it being dangerous for them, but that is simply not the case, and waiting for the boys to magically change is doing irreparable life-long damage to the girls who are dealing with sexism, misogyny and assaults right now. Also, it's not the responsibility of girls to help boys change their behaviours.

I would be wary of sending a child to a school in the hope that social change would occur quickly enough to make their experience better. These gender issues are very prevalent and deep rooted. You can still work for the change you want while trying to protect your child.

We are looking at a totally different type of school for secondary to what I'd thought we'd choose, because our child has totally different needs to us at primary age.

Sheldon said it better!

Of course, because all girls are bitches, and boys are never bitchy! (Sarcasm - I teach both.)
What a misogynistic comment.

[quote Goshitstricky]@Evesgarden - I was at an all girls school. I was well developed at a younger age than the 'popular' girls so they decided to target me, they told the rest of the girls I wore multiple bras to get my chest to look bigger so decided to strip me in the changing rooms, pinch at my nipples as I walked the corridors and pull up my skirt, ripped my tights, called me a slut and a skank etc because I had boobs and hips and they didn't yet, I don't give a shit if it's not as prolific as male sexual harassment, this was a well to do girls school and it happened, a lot. Girls are not all sweetness and light.

Then there's the general physical violent bullying but with a girls school there's also a quieter psychological spiteful bullying that is hard to catch and prove, I didn't see that in the mixed sex schools, you of course got fighting and bullying but it was different. [/quote]
I'm really sorry you experienced that as a child. Honestly I am, that is severe.

I went to an all girls school and never experienced that.

Also, it's not the responsibility of girls to help boys change their behaviours.

No it’s the responsibility of the boys first and foremost, and then the school and their parents. I’ve never said it’s up to the girls to help them.

@DeborahAnnabel

Blame the patriarchy. If it was proved that boys perform better in single sex schools than girls, you can bet your bottom dollar that there’d be an abundance of single sex schools.

Absolutely!

In my area there isn't even the option of a private girls school. Not that that would be an option for us anyway.

Real issue with families wanting single sex for DD but not DS - means the mixed schools in the city are two thirds boys as the boys schools in city have shut due to low demand.

DD attends an on paper outstanding girls comprehensive school but had a serious issue with being bullied last year. Girls can be totally vicious. Be careful what you wish for OP.

On a related note, I always think it's unfair that people who are religious have an advantage regarding state secondary school options. Some might call it the best of both worlds. That totally sucks (if you're not religious as a family), particularly in areas where faith schools outperform other secondaries by quite a margin.

To be fair to my 1980s girls' grammar, they made us do needlework and cooking (no D&T) but they also taught Maths very well, promoted engineering careers and we all did DofE.

I have used the sewing and cooking and those skills haven't dated, which D&T ones would have -- thinking of a friend who astonished her younger colleagues by offering to change a plug...only to find the device in question didn't allow you to. And you can't use a laser cutter that's not been invented yet.

Hmmm I like all girl school's and would happily send my DD to one when the time comes, I'm not surprised to hear girl's perform better in this environment.

But I honestly think the lack of non faith schools is a much more pressing issue, I cannot understand how that can be allowed, I was shocked by how many in my area are faith schools.

As a PP said:
Why the fuck do people think girls need to be taught how to behave around boys? What twisted logic is that? Its weird.
My DDs' single sex school is really mixed and quirky, the girls are funny, boisterous, protective of one another, and it is strong in both STEM and the Arts.
And Ashville, I do think that I have some parental responsibility for creating social opportunities and experiences for my kids, even as they grow older. No biggies, just everyday stuff.

Going back I wouldn't send my dd to a single sex school - she needs to grow up confident around males, a single sex school would have risked making her naive and unsure of how to cope with males.
Instead of single sex schools a focus should be on making sure girls are safe and respected in a mixed school.

Instead of single sex schools a focus should be on making sure girls are safe and respected in a mixed school.

This.

@AdultHumanFemale

Hm. Hasn't it also been proven that boys benefit from co-educational learning environments? That may be your answer...

Yes, yet again women and girls are disadvantaged to serve the interests of males!

I'm hugely in favour of single-sex education for girls, and possibly for boys, too (all the nicest, most respectful boys and men I have known went to single sex schools, but in fairness, most of them were independents or grammars, which may be as much of a factor as them being single sex).

There used to be a girls school, just one, in my county, but it merged with the boys school a few years ago and is now co-ed.

@BadgeronaMoped

My first thought here is that as a teenager, I would have hated to be at a girls' only school. It was fun having a mixed-sex friendship group, hanging out and chatting, also fancying various boys over the years we were at school together. This was at a fairly bog standard secondary school with students from ordinary "working class" sort of backgrounds.

I went to a girls’ school. There was also an equivalent boys’ school, so we had plenty of non-lesson mixing with various social events. Girls’ schools aren’t convents - far from it!

I’m glad I went to a single sex school and it didn’t harm my social life one bit. My teen years were party after party.

@ANameChangeAgain

Going back I wouldn't send my dd to a single sex school - she needs to grow up confident around males, a single sex school would have risked making her naive and unsure of how to cope with males. Instead of single sex schools a focus should be on making sure girls are safe and respected in a mixed school.

Really? Does your dd not know any males apart from in school? No boy family members brother, cousins? No sons of friends you have? No males at clubs/youth clubs?

Also what do you mean risk being naive and being unsure of coping with boys? Are you sending your dd to a coed school so she can become 'street wise' to boys and be able to cope with them through negative interaction?

Maybe you should have a look at the website 'Every one is invited' and see how misguided you are. Girls should not be being sent to school to learn how to 'cope' with boys

I went to a single sex school & I didn’t grow up naive & lacking in confidence around boys. I still hung out with boys just not at school. I had boyfriends, I had male friends, I had male cousins, I wasn’t in a nunnery.

@funinthesun19

Instead of single sex schools a focus should be on making sure girls are safe and respected in a mixed school.

This.

Also I would like a money tree in the garden. that's not going to happen either. Ever.

My two are both at single sex,they'd prefer to be in co-Ed but many of the state schools here are single sex

Aargh, why do people keep repeating the fact that boys do better at coed schools? I hate to get in the way of a good old MN bandwagon, but the evidence skews towards boys doing better in single sex also.

Even if it was true - which it isn't - how are we helping our daughters or our sons if we agree that girls need to be protected from toxic masculinity by keeping them separate and unpolluted, while allowing our sons to spend the best part of a decade stewing in a pit of it, and in many cases subject to exactly the kind of sexist abuse and sexual harassment that people want to spare their daughters.

I agree and would like more single sex options, though they will never be sustainable in small towns where there is only one secondary.

I have daughters and wanted them to attend an all-girls secondary school. There were no state options in our area, compared with five private options within reasonable travelling distance.
We were lucky that we could (just) afford private, with the help of scholarships, but obviously that isn't an option for most people.

Our daughters were very happy there and never reported any bullying. On the contrary, the girls were very supportive of each other. There were opportunities for some joint activities with the nearby boys school too, especially in the sixth form, as well as lots of informal mixing on the train. It was the best of both worlds as far as we were concerned.

We wouldn't have gone private just to get a single sex school, but it was one of a number of desirable features that we couldn't get in the state sector.

YABU, short sighted and ignorant.

Sheltering your daughter from the world keeping her away from boys isn't going to help - predators are always going to be around whether she goes to all girls school or not.

You need to find other ways to deal with it

@Bingomangoes

My mum was educated at a girls grammar and was absolutely resolute that me and my Dsis went to a co-ed. Not only because of the bullying but she also had no clue how to talk to men as equals when she left at age 18 and didn't want that for us. I had friends of both sexes a school, we were peers, so when I got to uni and landed in halls with a few single sex educated 18yr old boys who couldn't speak to me as an equal person it was incredibly strange and the only girl I met to have gone to an all girl's school had similar issue speaking to boys, no problem flirting, but couldn't speak to them as peers. I'm sure this doesn't apply to all single sex educated people obviously but it was really wierd and I don't think single sex schools prepare you for real life.

I grew up in the bad old days of the 11+ and there were many single sex grammars and a couple of single sex secondary modern schools in my borough. Single sex education was much more common then.

Many of my women friends were educated in single sex school and, do you know what, we all talk to men, as equals, in exactly the same way as we talk to women! And the men I know who also went to single sex schools are far less sexist than those who went to co-eds, where they learned sexism from their peers and had a pool of girls to practice it on.

For me, single sex education for girls is all about how well they learn, not about safety. And we didn't have bullying at my school, it just wasn't a thing. However, my DNiece was bullied by being somewhat ostracised at the single sex independent that she went to on a scholarship. I suspect that was a class thing though.