To think it’s unfair single-sex schools aren’t an option for many (perhaps even most)?

[patienceandprudence]

I have one single sex state school (and in fact there is only one private) in my county. It is in the county town, which we are not in the catchment for. It would take an hour and half to get to by public transport anyway.

Since it has been proven many times over that girls do better in single sex schools, why on earth aren’t there more options for those of us not in 11+ counties? I think it’s a great shame, and it doesn’t seem to be a thing that’s even being thought about.

Also, I've b/g twins. They're only 19 months now, but for for secondary I'll likely send them to single sex schools (since they're the best ones locally).

But their education isn't disrupted by boys in the classroom, and they aren't harassed by boys in lessons and corridors.

So there isn't one girl in the school that disrupts class? There isn't one girl that calls a classmate names or makes comments on appearance or intelligence.

I'm finding the rhetoric on here lately where all men are bad (to the point that one poster started a thread worrying about her 6 month old son becoming a monster!) and all women are good ridiculous. I don't know how these posters manage to bring themselves to interact with even their own male family members, let alone men that they don't know but have to engage with.

I went to an all-girls school and loved it. Looking back it did feel like we could all thrive a bit more than we would have done at a co-ed but that’s just my personal experience. We also knew loads of boys lol we didn’t live this weird nun-like existence, we had “brother” schools and used to spend our weekends at parties, seeing boys after school etc. I’m really glad I went to a single sex school and have always felt super comfortable in the company of women.

I don’t know if single sex is the answer but I do know we have to do far more to tackle the absolutely rife sexual assaults, harassment and misogyny amongst teenagers in and out of school. Banning violent porn and restrictions to stop under 18s being able to access any form of porn. Better PHSE. Schools taking the issue seriously - Ofsted has said schools consistently underestimate the size of the problem.

Parents understanding that peer group influence is very strong and your boy who would ‘never do that’ may well not themselves but might still be in an environment with boys who will and do harass and assault girls. They might join in, they might be bystanders, they might be disturbed and damaged by it all themselves. Or perhaps they will sail through never once seeing or hearing about porn, rape jokes, groping, serious assaults, nudes etc. I think it’s highly unlikely though given where we are as a society.

I have a girl and a boy BTW.

Also as PP have said I really hate this misogynistic assumption that all girls together are bitchy and evil and only the presence of boys can temper it I formed some incredible friendships at school and there was a real sense of camaraderie amongst us- they opened our sixth form to include boys and after the initial excitement wore off we were all a bit annoyed and missed how things had been.

I think they should be an option.
We have both single sex secondary and Muslim schools here, so at least we have the choice.

I'd be much happier if there was mixed schools primary secondary education with single sex college and university.

Lady Gaga music video "till it happens to you" should be shown to teenagers in secondary school, education around the impact of sexual abuse.

I'd a large group of friends in secondary thankfully we were safe there, it was college, parties, etc when most of us felt intimidated or were violated by men.

Like pp I had good friendships with some boys from school.

Because educational attainment isn't everything and isolating girls results in young women who lack the skills and social awareness to handle themselves in the mixed sex situations.

Plus girls schools often encourage a culture of 'feminine delicacy' that ultimately restricts women's opens - most of the women I knew who went to girls schools had their p.e focused entirely on hocky/netball/gymnastics and their practicaly lessons were all cooking and sewing because that was what most of the girls wanted, many of them did well, but it meant meant some missed out who would have benefited from more diverse options which were on offer in unsegragated schools because the presence of boys meant there was enough demand for more traditionally masculine subjects to run those classes.

I would rather homeschool my children if the only other option was a single sex school. That goes for my sons and daughter.

I went to a few schools as a child and the ones with the sexual abuse, bullying, really nasty, quiet vindictive torture were the single sex schools.

In the Co Ed I was happy, I flourished in a social and education sense.
That's the difference between a good and bad school, it's nothing to do with the cohort.

I recognise that description from the girls' school I attended in the 1980s, nosy, but not from the girls' schools I've taught in this century. They have modernised, even if it's taken a while. More girls took Science A-levels than boys in 2019, for instance.

@SheldontheWonderSchlong

Totally agree - there should be far more all-girls schools especially as the rates of sexual assaults in schools are ridiculously high. Frankly I view them as necessary to keep our daughters safe.

Sweeping generalisation!

But state school is always about sweeping generalisations and not tailored to each learner. Of course single sex schools would be better generally, which is the point. There'll never be a system that is perfect for each individual.

Generally single sex would be better.

@nosyupnorth

Because educational attainment isn't everything and isolating girls results in young women who lack the skills and social awareness to handle themselves in the mixed sex situations.

Plus girls schools often encourage a culture of 'feminine delicacy' that ultimately restricts women's opens - most of the women I knew who went to girls schools had their p.e focused entirely on hocky/netball/gymnastics and their practicaly lessons were all cooking and sewing because that was what most of the girls wanted, many of them did well, but it meant meant some missed out who would have benefited from more diverse options which were on offer in unsegragated schools because the presence of boys meant there was enough demand for more traditionally masculine subjects to run those classes.

This has really made me laugh! Maybe 30 years ago when I was in a single sex school - we also learned typewriting, cooking and stitching too!

My girls in an all girls do Archery, La cross and football, plus net ball ect..

People are weirdly stuck on socialisation, like our kids are puppies. School is for learning. Its really sad that the biggest pro for mixed schools is that it helps girls know how to behave around boys - wtf? Do people really believe that girls are going grow in to being giggling women when a ,male encounters them?

Why the fuck do people think girls need to be taught how to behave around boys? What twisted logic is that? Its weird

It should be a safe environment but we know it isn't. Kids that go to single sex schools socialise out of schools with boys - shock horror.

Some of you seem to be describing finishing schools not girls schools. They sound really hard to be in. But If they were the norm you wouldn’t see achievement in girls-only education rated higher than mixed for girls, you wouldn’t see the jump in girls taking ‘male only’ subjects in girls schools..

I think you need to send your kids to school in the social environment you have available, not what you wish it was. What school or society has successfully tackled sexism aimed at young girls then, please give examples. What’s wrong with ‘segregating’ school kids at a formative time in their lives? Why can’t they take on sexually motivated hostility and harassment at an older age when they’re easier able to deal with it?

Also everything Wordy said.

I went to a single sex grammar school in the 00s and LOVED it. I cannot ddnt that there was a lot of bitchy/clique behaviour but it didn't really bother me. My school was very pro feminism and nurturing and I'm glad I went although not sure how much of this was because it was grammar.

The boys in the twin boys' grammar seemed to equally like their school. Although both had highly gendered sports provision, boys ruby and cricket, girls dance and netball

I would never send my daughter to an all girls school. I went to one for a while. Yes, the girls did well academically but it was a hot bed of bullying, eating disorders and nasty competition.

@Cosyblankets actually its not a sweeping generalisation. She should do some research on the stats and the rise of sexual assault and harassment in schools - starting from primary school.

You should probably have a look at the website 'Everyones invited' which is a website where there are thousands of claims from girls speaking about their sexual harassment/abuse in school even from primary level.

This is why it will never change because people will not admit to themselves that their sons could be capable - its always other peoples sons..

Instead people expect girls to be taught how to behave and socialise around boys

@DeborahAnnabel

Blame the patriarchy. If it was proved that boys perform better in single sex schools than girls, you can bet your bottom dollar that there’d be an abundance of single sex schools.

Oh yes! That is true enough

@Goshitstricky

I would rather homeschool my children if the only other option was a single sex school. That goes for my sons and daughter.

I went to a few schools as a child and the ones with the sexual abuse, bullying, really nasty, quiet vindictive torture were the single sex schools.

In the Co Ed I was happy, I flourished in a social and education sense.
That's the difference between a good and bad school, it's nothing to do with the cohort.

There was female to female sexual abuse in your school? Was it an isolated incident or was it multiple incidents - because both are incredibly rare - especially in young girls.

Or was you at a boys school?

There is not one state single sex girls school in the whole of Scotland. In fact, having googled, there is ONE in the whole of Scotland which takes girls only, in Aberdeen. One in Edinburgh which only takes boys post 16.

So whatever the pros and cons, there is no choice in Scotland.

@TaraR2020

Nope, I don't agree with single sex schools

Why? It's evidenced girls do much better in them. And are safer.

Terrible idea. Girls should be able to go to state schools without it having implanted in to their heads that they’re in danger unless they go to an all girls school.

And anyway, I thought the responsibility was on boys (the bad ones of course) to change, rather than girls doing all the changing. Surely sending girls to all girls schools just cancels out any progress in changing male behaviour.

@Evesgarden - I was at an all girls school. I was well developed at a younger age than the 'popular' girls so they decided to target me, they told the rest of the girls I wore multiple bras to get my chest to look bigger so decided to strip me in the changing rooms, pinch at my nipples as I walked the corridors and pull up my skirt, ripped my tights, called me a slut and a skank etc because I had boobs and hips and they didn't yet, I don't give a shit if it's not as prolific as male sexual harassment, this was a well to do girls school and it happened, a lot. Girls are not all sweetness and light.

Then there's the general physical violent bullying but with a girls school there's also a quieter psychological spiteful bullying that is hard to catch and prove, I didn't see that in the mixed sex schools, you of course got fighting and bullying but it was different.

@Cosyblankets Not a sweeping generalisation according to this Ofsted report. www.gov.uk/government/publications/review-of-sexual-abuse-in-schools-and-colleges/review-of-sexual-abuse-in-schools-and-colleges

It was a rapid review, so more research is needed but it concluded that it IS a widespread problem, indeed so normalised that some said they saw no point in reporting it.

I know it's frightening, and we'd rather not believe this is happening, much less that our sons or boys we know could be involved, or that it is happening to our daughters, or our daughters' friends but denying there is a problem isn't going to fix it. We have to face up to it and do something about it.

Feminine delicacy is… not a focus at any girls schools around me. Hiking and camping, achievements, social justice and changing the world are. I have my gold duke of Ed through my girls school, and took up serious kayaking there as well as a life long love of hiking. They sent me to a residential school for potential engineering students at the main local university.