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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

To think he should resign immediately?

130 replies

Leibham · 01/10/2021 21:15

Zarah Sultana MP has reported that today The Conservative Police and Crime Commissioner for North Yorkshire Phill Abbott has said that Sarah Everard should have ‘resisted arrest’ and that women need to be more ‘street smart’.

Victim blaming her and other women effectively.

OP posts:
Viviennemary · 02/10/2021 00:00

Awful. Thats why Couzens got the full life. She didn't resist because he was a policeman.

Songsinthekeyoflife · 02/10/2021 00:03

Fuck off Philip Allott. We see you.

mathanxiety · 02/10/2021 00:03

Also I’m quite sure that people frequently resist arrest already for all sorts of crimes and what happens? They get arrested anyway.

Yes, and charged with resisting arrest as well as whatever the original charge was..

Maskless · 02/10/2021 00:03

During lockdown I saw on lots of films which were uploaded to Youtube what police do to people who "resist arrest". I saw them being bashed with batons, kicked, thrown to the ground and sat on, etc.

Yes, he should resign.

Piccalino3 · 02/10/2021 00:38

@theemperorhasnoclothes

www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2021/oct/01/women-prey-authority-violence-against-women

Marina Hyde is just a brilliant writer.

"The women who love you have to communicate the fear to you when you’re still a girl, knowing that one day you too will have to communicate it to the girls you love. They pass you down their strategies – their defences – like your birthright. And when you’re big enough to be out in the world on your own, those same women spend their time hoping till it hurts that this fear, which they had to gift you out of love, will somehow save you. “In the evenings,” said Sarah Everard’s mother in her unforgettable victim impact statement, “at the time she was abducted, I let out a silent scream: ‘Don’t get in the car, Sarah. Don’t believe him. Run!’”

I don't want to shatter my beautiful daughters' happiness and security and feeling of safety by exposing them to the knowledge of the epidemic of male violence against women and the failure of the police, the courts, the country to tackle it in even the slightest way. But sooner rather than later I have to. Because fear is all we have. The advice from the police to run away if scared - that's saying we're not even going to bother to do anything to protect you, you're on your own. Fear is all you've got.

This is one of the saddest things I've read because it's so true. Fear and strategies for trying to keep safe is all we have. How very sad that it is a gift we pass to our daughters in the hope it will keep them safe and sometimes that is not enough.
MaskingForIt · 02/10/2021 01:03

Great victim blaming, sister, you really smashed the patriarchy there.

MaskingForIt · 02/10/2021 01:08

@MaskingForIt

Great victim blaming, sister, you really smashed the patriarchy there.
Quote fail. That was aimed at Mrs “I used to live there and would never have walked down that road alone at night”.
TrampolineForMrKite · 02/10/2021 01:12

Yeah he should, but arguably Cressida Dick’s words around this have been equally ugly and insincere and she’s still on her three hundred and odd K a year. I’d love to see her head roll in amidst all this, but I’m pretty sure it won’t.

Not wishing to make this political, but I do think that these kinds of people are allowed to retain top jobs without question when the government in charge of them is as rotten and corrupt as our current one is. It’s a top-down situation in my opinion and Boris Johnson is an insincere, useless and misogynistic fuckface who sacks no one and has been sacked from 90% of his own jobs anyway. Why would any commissioner of anything step down from their jobs for being incompetent or misogynistic when our Prime Minister is both of those things times ten and still residing in Downing Street?

YourFinestPantaloons · 02/10/2021 01:14

100% needs to resign, as does Dick.

Swiftly followed by an overhaul in all police forces - reviewing cases of officers who've committed violent acts, looking into toxic cultures in forces and investigating why the fuck nobody is whistleblowing in a very corrupt taxpayer funded institution

themidnighttrain · 02/10/2021 04:54

Begin street smart involves telling the difference between a real police officer and a fake police officer.

He was real.

What the hell was she supposed to have done?

Anon778833 · 02/10/2021 05:00

I agree. Disgusting attitude that I've also heard from women yesterday.

When going about your daily business you don't tend to think 'this police officer might be a murderer'.

Lex345 · 02/10/2021 05:05

I am so fucking sick and tired of having to modify my behaviour, keep myself safe, teach my daughter how to defend herself, listen to #NotAllMen bollocks, listen to victim blaming and listening to excuses. The fact is the attitude towards women in society is wholly unacceptable and it is men that need to change that not women.

Also, I am sick of hearing "he is not a man, but a monster" "not a policeman, but a murderer". He IS a man. He WAS a police officer. I understand why people say these things, to distance themselves and differentiate themselves from him. But until we start accepting that actually MEN are responsible for these atrocious acts towards women and these men can come from all walks of life (because literally the misogyny in our society is so widespread) then nothing will change.

Tolerance of the mistreatment, disrepsect and objectification of women in our society literally feed a nurturing environment for some men to be able to develop these warped, violent and hateful attitudes towards women. Until we address this at every level and men start calling it out as well, there is no hope of change.

xksismybestletter · 02/10/2021 05:06

He was elected by the people of north Yorkshire (not Manchester) he can't be sacked, he can resign but there is no power of recall for PCC /pfccs. He also doesn't work for the police so his organisation may not have signed up to the code of ethics - although he probably has a code of conduct, which will be on the website linked upthread.

I believe he has apologised, and I wonder whether he has gone rogue from his Comms team.

madisonbridges · 02/10/2021 05:26

I think what he said was completely wrong. Even leaving Sarah Everard aside, it's totally unreasonable to suggest we learn the entire legal system or resist arrest.

However, I don't think he should resign. Everything is knee-jerk reactions these days, fuelled by a minority on social media. If he's realised his mistake and apologised, then that should be enough.

Nightbringer · 02/10/2021 05:58

I just have no words. Me and my family aren't white.

I am sick if having conversations with my children about shit like this. I am sick of telling them that even though they may do nothing wrong, they aren't safe to just go about their business.

Let's be honest, Sarah's murderer wasn't not just one rogue copper. There's systemic problems and has been for years.

Sarah, couldn't have done anything different. She shouldn't have had to do anything different. She shouldn't have had to 'not walk down that street'. WC was driving around. It could have been on another street or he could have chose a different area.

I feel ill that anyone thinks she should have done anything different. And for them to even open their mouths to say it publicly, just horrifies me.

Theres alot of blame to go around, primarily on WC, but non of it should be directed at Sarah. Not even a hint.

Nightbringer · 02/10/2021 06:00

@madisonbridges

I think what he said was completely wrong. Even leaving Sarah Everard aside, it's totally unreasonable to suggest we learn the entire legal system or resist arrest.

However, I don't think he should resign. Everything is knee-jerk reactions these days, fuelled by a minority on social media. If he's realised his mistake and apologised, then that should be enough.

See this is where I disagree.

I don't want anyone on this position that needs it explained to him, that what he said is wrong and he needs to apologise.

At the very least it shows very very poor judgment and understanding of the situation faced by women going about about their own business. It shows a distinct lack of understanding that people can't just resist arrest.

To me it shows he shouldn't be in this role.

RoseAndRose · 02/10/2021 07:55

@Eggmcmuffin

Absolutely disgusting, if he stays in his post it says a lot about the police culture.
Well, that'll be up the the voters of North Yorkshire at the next PPC elections

It's not a decision that can be made by the police force, even if an incumbent is someone they despise.

maddening · 02/10/2021 07:56

The Yorkshire police are very anti women

RoseAndRose · 02/10/2021 07:59

@maddening

The Yorkshire police are very anti women
There are four police forces covering Yorkshire. Do you mean all of them?

And if so, why is Yorkshire worse than the rest of the country? I'm not being arsey - just wondering if the comment should have been about the toxic end of police culture everywhere.

AntiMaskersAreTwats · 02/10/2021 08:00

If I was her family I would make it my life’s work to get everyone who had let Sarah down either prosecuted or sacked. I wouldn’t rest until every single one of them was punished.

ftw163532 · 02/10/2021 08:03

@maddening

The Yorkshire police are very anti women
They all are. It's part of the foundation of the institution.
YourFinestPantaloons · 02/10/2021 08:07

@DuncinToffee

This advice doesn't seem much better www.met.police.uk/notices/met/our-response-to-issues-raised-by-the-crimes-of-wayne-couzens/

Flagging down a bus had been adviced too earlier.

That's just insulting. Unless you are lucky enough to be at a bus stop, a bus is passing and planning to stop there. It's not Harry Potter, you can't just flag down a bus. And even if you did, why is it all now a bus driver's problem?! What can they do?
Mumoftwoinprimary · 02/10/2021 08:08

@maddening

The Yorkshire police are very anti women
You are thinking of the West Yorkshire police. This is York and North Yorkshire.

Not saying they are not anti women - but it is West Yorkshire that like to arrest women for thought crime.

YourFinestPantaloons · 02/10/2021 08:08

Especially given high crime rates on public transport these days. People are beaten to a pulp on buses and the driver and passengers just sit there doing fuck all. The 'flag down a bus' advice just shows how far removed from reality these people are

toastfiend · 02/10/2021 08:18

What a horrible, insensitive, victim blaming cunt.

Until this happened it would never have occurred to me to resist arrest or make a scene when being arrested by an an officer with the appropriate credentials. I've never been in trouble with the law, it would shock me, embarrass me, and worry me a lot if I was suddenly being arrested for something and I'd be as compliant as possible in the hope that it would all blow over as quickly as possible. There's no way I'd resist arrest and potentially add to their reasons for arresting me or to the possibility of my actually being charged with something. I imagine that Sarah Everard would have taken a similar approach given that, by all accounts, she wasn't someone who would have had contact with the Police in this way before. I would still struggle to know what to do now because the Met's response is so extraordinarily lacking - they're telling us we can challenge it, but how does that actually work? And what does that mean, exactly? We can shout a bit and if someone has bad intentions they'll probably still be able to overpower us and the public won't intervene because it'll look like a legitimate arrest. Great.

Women already go out of our way to protect ourselves every single day. Why can't the onus be placed on men not to attack us? I feel so angry about this.