It shouldn’t be said that “only women have a cervix”.

[Paddingtonsmarmaladesandwiches]

Watching Keir Stammer on Marr this morning scrambling to answer whether or not it is transphobic to say “only women have a cervix” was the final nail in the coffin for me this morning with Labour. In the aftermath of The Lancet calling women, “bodies with vaginas”, I think I’ve finally figured out that the current belief system is that transwomen are women, but women who were observed female at birth are “bodies with vaginas”. Clearly Labour aren’t in need of the votes of bodies with vaginas, brains and a spine.

@OverByYer

Totally worn out with all this bullshit. I really thought KS would be a great leader and really take on and take down the Tories. He’s been a huge disappointment. Weak in opposition and now this. I’ll have to spoil my vote again in any future elections.

I feel the same. I was so excited about Kier as leader.

@PhiRhoSigma

If you don't respect my sex, don't expect my X, Labour.

Love that.

Tories have Liz Truss and Kemi Badenoch who both know what a woman is. I'd have either of them for PM.

@Whatwouldscullydo

If this isn't proof the only women anyone cares about are those born male, I don't know what is.

Exactly this.

I honestly think the tories don't give a toss about women, natal or otherwise, and are laughing all the way to the next poll that somehow Labour are being blamed for something which has happened on their watch. They've played a blinder

I agree the conservatives don't give a toss about women, however they have put changing the GRA on the back burner and are happily watching other parties destroy their female voter base over the issue. The point for me is that whilst changes to the GRA are not being pushed though we have time to increase women's awareness of what it means which makes it less likely in the long run that legislative change will occur without proper debate. The Tories are only preferable on this issue because they are stalling, all the other parties intend to introduce self ID.

WRT to women's concerns being a reflection of privilege I would point out that we have no protection as a sex class if we are not clearly defined from the other sex class by equality law, this would impact the least privileged women most.

@rocklamp

They'll never get my vote, and I'm a socialist.

Yes, I've been disenfranchised too. Haven't a clue who to vote for any more.

@AChickenCalledDaal

It is so important that the NHS and other health systems finds some way to manage this.

Totally agree with that. The person I am thinking could fall between the cracks if the medical profession settles on "women and transmen" as they use neither title. And yes, we have had a number of conversations about the vital importance of being honest about one's biology where medical matters are concerned. Having a friend who is a sexual health nurse has been quite enlightening as to the line that needs to be trod. Talking about having female biology rather than being a woman is more likely to keep communication open in my experience.

So this person you are talking about wants all the language and terminology used regarding female health care to be bastardised and changed to suit themselves? Despite the fact that doing so dehumanises and disenfranchises the vastly overwhelming majority of people who need that health care?

If the person you are talking about cannot or will not acknowledge their sex and the health care needs associated with that sex and take responsibility for them then that is their choice, it is not their choice to remove or obfuscate the language and terminology for everyone else.

That was the final straw for me. Starmer is as much of an idiot as Corbyn.

I won't be voting Labour, just to keep such idiot doublespeak out. And I'm not ashamed to say so. What choice do we have?

@rocklamp

They'll never get my vote, and I'm a socialist.

Same.

Talking about having female biology rather than being a woman is more likely to keep communication open in my experience.

I think that it is a great place to start. I don’t think using ‘female’ is perfect, but it retains accuracy and clarity at least.

None of us need to be dehumanised.

A new party is urgently needed. In Scotland there is Alba, in England and Wales there is nothing. Labour, Lib Dems and Greens will expel you for understanding biological reality.

@ponyexpress22

Perhaps we should all start using equally wrong terms for men, person with testicles, person with penis...... If women are denied their correct terms let's deny men theirs. Play them at their own game.

Hmm. This might be a good idea.

TWAW!

Yes, quite. Now, along with all the other people who were born with one, it's really important that you see your GP urgently if you have these symptoms, as they can be signs of testicular or prostate cancer.

But they're men!

I wouldn't be so rude as to presume such. Now, if you do have those symptoms, as it would be entirely inappropriate to refer to a department with specific terminology just as Men's or Women's Health, you'll be sent to a specialist in Balls, Arsetrouble, Weeing frequently at night, Bollock lumps and Girly penis problems.

We call them the B.A.W.B.A.G. doctors.

What really upsets me is the woke women who get behind this kind of shit. It’s inclusive, TW are women, doesn’t hurt me so why should I care etc

I’m not surprised re Keir Starmer.

When I was a young woman(!) men (sorry bodies with a penis) would habitually talk to my boobs because the boobs were rather shapely. I was sick of that at a very young age; now I am older, and I am reduced to a body with a vagina, and politicians debate whether it's phobic to debate on the cervix and what to call their owners. What a joke!

I'm beginning to think that the LP prefer being the opposition.
When you think about how the economy is struggling after brexit and covid, the recent petrol fiasco and how unhappy most people are , would you want to be the ones having to sort it all out ?
Much easier to say all this about a tiny section of the population ( and piss off 50 percent of it) and ' slag ' off any Conservative voters then sit back and watch scarcely anyone vote for you! You can then watch the other lot try and get the country back on track from the sidelines whilst bleating on about the correct pronouns.
I do believe they are running scared of being anywhere near number 10 , I really do.

This has actually made me furious. I guess more so from the Lancet as I see some areas as remaining scientific, fair, unbiased and of medical quality standards. And now even the Lancet has greatly let me down as a female medical professional.

How in any way is ‘bodies with vaginas’ OK. It is the language of violence and dehumanisation. Any psychiatrist reading the Lancet will tell you that.

I’ve no idea why on earth it’s not OK for women to be still referred to as women. Other groups can dictate their own names, which I will respect. But a medical journal to refuse to call a biological sex by it’s name, woman, that’s just insane! (Although apparently men is not an issue… )

They lost my vote ages ago because of Diane Abbott.

@AChickenCalledDaal

It is so important that the NHS and other health systems finds some way to manage this.

Totally agree with that. The person I am thinking could fall between the cracks if the medical profession settles on "women and transmen" as they use neither title. And yes, we have had a number of conversations about the vital importance of being honest about one's biology where medical matters are concerned. Having a friend who is a sexual health nurse has been quite enlightening as to the line that needs to be trod. Talking about having female biology rather than being a woman is more likely to keep communication open in my experience.

I've heard a transman say that they don't like the body-referencing phrases as it increases their dysphoria. They actually feel it's easier to hear & distance themselves from the word 'woman', & so would prefer the medical profession etc to use woman/women.

Also, as someone else said, I've had my womb & cervix removed. Am I not a woman? (Rhetorical question)

Female seems the way to go, especially in medical situations. There's no excuse for the cumbersome ugliness of phrases like 'cervix-haver', particularly when the same insults aren't perpetrated in the language used to talk about males.

I'm donning my hard hat for this next comment but I think you're in a position of privilege if who shares the changing rooms at the local swimming pool is your most pressing concern rather than how to afford to pay for your children's shoes and food

There's always one. But I'll bite.

It's ideological warfare that is fundamentally changing the landscape of women's rights as we know it. It has far reaching consequences. That a leader of a party thinks it's not right think to talk about only having a cervix is unconscionable.

My brain can cope with holding multiple thoughts, concerns and ideas in my head. Just because I am thinking about what Keir said doesn't mean I'm not worrying about other fundamentals.

This thread is about one topic. Why don't you start a different thread about food on the table and children's shoes?

@mowglika

What really upsets me is the woke women who get behind this kind of shit. It’s inclusive, TW are women, doesn’t hurt me so why should I care etc

I’m not surprised re Keir Starmer.

Exactly. I don’t know why some women wouldn’t be offended by being referred to as a body with a vagina though. What has happened that they are not offended?

As in the despicable way she's treated.

'I’m sorry but I’m so done with this shit. Absolutely done. I’m tired of being polite, I’m tired of being “kind”, that is what got us in this unholy mess in the first place, and I am done. If a transman wants to be addressed with male pronouns or have a male name or present themselves in a masculine way that’s fine, crack on, I’m not gonna be a dick about that for the sake of being a dick. But I’m not going to lie and pretend they aren’t women.

You don’t get to identify out of (or indeed into) womanhood and then insist that we remove or change all the language we use to represent ourselves because it makes you feel better. If you have a cervix, you’re a woman. If that’s a difficult truth for you to hear then that’s a pity, but it’s not my problem.'

Could not agree more. Sick to death of being expected to pretend that we don't know who is a woman and who isn't. Women are being treated like we don't exist, or at the very least, don't matter. Starmer can get to fuck with his craven, spineless bullshit. Shame on him

You may as well have all the Christmas gunk in the supermarkets all of the year, as people will still go and buy stuff. I used to work in a supermarket years ago, and lots of Christmas promotions began now, as like in early Autumn.

I used to work in the store bakery, and at the beginning of September, we had to start baking loads of mince pies and such everyday. The days before, as in August, the store was still selling summer stuff all over the place.

Screw the women who don't recognize themselves as "cervix havers" because English isn't their first language, or because they haven't be educated about their own bodies or they don't have a cervix anymore ehh.

Keir Starmer doing all the work of the present government, again
He is a gift to Boris Johnson, that is for sure

Yes, sad as it is, people will chose to vote for a government which has systematically made lives incredibly difficult for disabled people over an opposition who gets caught up with clumsy language around an issue which actually has very little impact on the economy and everyday lives of the vast majority of people.

I am so thankful to AM for bringing this all out into to the open. It's all getting madder too, which can only be good.
If somebody wishes to live with all this gender nonsense over actual biology, they really need to take responsibility for their health and screening, and not expect an already overworked medical professional to read their mind.
Not sure common sense and all this gender stuff are compatible though.