It shouldn’t be said that “only women have a cervix”.

[Paddingtonsmarmaladesandwiches]

Watching Keir Stammer on Marr this morning scrambling to answer whether or not it is transphobic to say “only women have a cervix” was the final nail in the coffin for me this morning with Labour. In the aftermath of The Lancet calling women, “bodies with vaginas”, I think I’ve finally figured out that the current belief system is that transwomen are women, but women who were observed female at birth are “bodies with vaginas”. Clearly Labour aren’t in need of the votes of bodies with vaginas, brains and a spine.

[Pumperthepumper]

@AChickenCalledDaal

I'm curious how a gender critical person would like the medical profession to communicate with people who absolutely reject the title "woman", but do require regular cervical smears in the interests of their health?

It's a pretty live issue for me, since my eldest child would be in that category. I would certainly not want them to swerve vitally important health checks because of the language used.

I also really dislike "bodies with cervixes" ... but it's clearly not as simple as just saying "you're a woman" "no I'm not" "yes you are" ad nauseam until everyone falls out.

I think if it’s about a medical procedure they have to be registered by biology. I dont see why correspondence can’t say ‘Mr’ or whatever, but I can’t see a system where you need a cervix screening but still want to be registered male.

[FOJN]

Let's not forget that the question was related to Rosie Duffield MP who has stayed away from the Labour party conference because she received death threats for stating, "only women have a cervix". If Keir wanted respectful debate he could have supported her but he did not. What an example to set for women considering a career in politics.

[Paddingtonsmarmaladesandwiches]

twitter.com/historywoman/status/1441714855178907651?s=21

A “helpful” guide for understanding Keir speak?

[Helleofabore]

@AChickenCalledDaal

I'm curious how a gender critical person would like the medical profession to communicate with people who absolutely reject the title "woman", but do require regular cervical smears in the interests of their health?

It's a pretty live issue for me, since my eldest child would be in that category. I would certainly not want them to swerve vitally important health checks because of the language used.

I also really dislike "bodies with cervixes" ... but it's clearly not as simple as just saying "you're a woman" "no I'm not" "yes you are" ad nauseam until everyone falls out.

How about ‘female’ at a minimum?

Women, transmen and non-binary people (with said body part or function if they like that form of address).

How they address them personally? By their chosen name maybe.

[Artichokeleaves]

Female works. And one can negotiate with that individual person on and individual basis and work out what personally suits them.

But I am wholly with Angelo

The time for going along with this and enabling this appalling gynephobia and speaking about women in the terms of serial killers 'bleeders' and 'bodies' in the name of being 'kind' is past.

[FOJN]

"you're a woman" "no I'm not" "yes you are" ad nauseam until everyone falls out.

Body parts can be referred to by name when directly communicating with an individual there is no need to engage in an ideological debate about gender identity.

The word female can also be used as it specifically relates to sex class, a person may not like being female but that is not either the fault or within the power of an HCP to change.

Lying for convenience isn't helpful, some younger people actually believe that surgery/hormones can literally cause them to change sex.

[Artichokeleaves]

I'd also add that it's one thing to want your dd to have the freedom to name herself how she prefers. Its another to insist that everyone else must inform their dds that two major political parties now are publicly stating that their bodies are too shameful to be named aloud.

[Mebster]

My favorites is the reference to "front holes." These people are barking mad, completely.

[lazylinguist]

I'm curious how a gender critical person would like the medical profession to communicate with people who absolutely reject the title "woman", but do require regular cervical smears in the interests of their health?

Women and transmen?

[Purplepeoniesdroppingpetals]

@Jakc

Well I was born female but due to medical reasons now I don’t have a cervix or a womb does this mean I’m now a man???!!

I should demand a payrise forthwith, if I were you!

[Helleofabore]

AChickenCalledDaal

If someone has a child that cannot acknowledge their sex (as opposed to their gender) I would hope that those people are receiving as much mental health support as they can.

There have been too many stories of trans people not receiving the care they need due to medical records being changed and the patient not being able to tell medical teams or not being able to admit it.

It is so important that the NHS and other health systems finds some way to manage this.

[lazylinguist]

Sorry, I meant that the groups of people you are referring to could in those circumstances be referred to by tye medical profession as 'women and transmen'.

[Ninjawannabe]

Just for arguments sake...

The Tories have been in power for the last 11 years. Is it really right to get all indignant at how you're never voting Labour given xyz when the entirety of this bullshit has come up under Tory rule? Why are Labour getting blamed?

OK fine, Keir isn't convincing anyone he'll make any beneficial changes, but Boris and his predecessors are the ones who have presided over all that has happened over the last decade +, and at least Labour won't be slash/burning UC, NHS, school budgets to the same extent? These all affect women too. And IMO these things affect natal women a lot more day to day especially poor women.

I'm donning my hard hat for this next comment but I think you're in a position of privilege if who shares the changing rooms at the local swimming pool is your most pressing concern rather than how to afford to pay for your children's shoes and food

I honestly think the tories don't give a toss about women, natal or otherwise, and are laughing all the way to the next poll that somehow Labour are being blamed for something which has happened on their watch. They've played a blinder

[WindBlowAutumnDays]

I feel sorry for vulnerable people who have been taken advantage of by people who refer to them as useful idiots in a bigger plot, not only do they and their family have to eventually deal with the self harm they did to themselves they have to deal with the damage they did to everyone else.

Lies!

[WindBlowAutumnDays]

I think the Tories saw an opportunity and took it.

Liars chose to lie, enablers choice to do nothing and let evil prevail.

Some said something, most people stayed quiet when we all knew what was happening, liars with excited eyes of glee that can't believe how stupid everyone is basking in glory as we all wait for their eventual downfall, because we all know the Emperor's have no clothes on.

[Yondergoat]

@AngeloMysterioso

Transmen can have cervixes so it's not only women.

THEY
ARE
WOMEN.

I’m sorry but I’m so done with this shit. Absolutely done. I’m tired of being polite, I’m tired of being “kind”, that is what got us in this unholy mess in the first place, and I am done. If a transman wants to be addressed with male pronouns or have a male name or present themselves in a masculine way that’s fine, crack on, I’m not gonna be a dick about that for the sake of being a dick. But I’m not going to lie and pretend they aren’t women.

You don’t get to identify out of (or indeed into) womanhood and then insist that we remove or change all the language we use to represent ourselves because it makes you feel better. If you have a cervix, you’re a woman. If that’s a difficult truth for you to hear then that’s a pity, but it’s not my problem.

Well said.

[RedDogsBeg]

@AngeloMysterioso

Transmen can have cervixes so it's not only women.

THEY
ARE
WOMEN.

I’m sorry but I’m so done with this shit. Absolutely done. I’m tired of being polite, I’m tired of being “kind”, that is what got us in this unholy mess in the first place, and I am done. If a transman wants to be addressed with male pronouns or have a male name or present themselves in a masculine way that’s fine, crack on, I’m not gonna be a dick about that for the sake of being a dick. But I’m not going to lie and pretend they aren’t women.

You don’t get to identify out of (or indeed into) womanhood and then insist that we remove or change all the language we use to represent ourselves because it makes you feel better. If you have a cervix, you’re a woman. If that’s a difficult truth for you to hear then that’s a pity, but it’s not my problem.

You and me both.

[OverByYer]

Totally worn out with all this bullshit.
I really thought KS would be a great leader and really take on and take down the Tories. He’s been a huge disappointment. Weak in opposition and now this.
I’ll have to spoil my vote again in any future elections.

[AChickenCalledDaal]

It is so important that the NHS and other health systems finds some way to manage this.

Totally agree with that. The person I am thinking could fall between the cracks if the medical profession settles on "women and transmen" as they use neither title. And yes, we have had a number of conversations about the vital importance of being honest about one's biology where medical matters are concerned. Having a friend who is a sexual health nurse has been quite enlightening as to the line that needs to be trod. Talking about having female biology rather than being a woman is more likely to keep communication open in my experience.

[labourslostlove]

I am still a Labour member, but only just. I stay because I want to be on the inside and hear what people are saying at meetings, use my vote when I can, and I also know some very good Labour councillors and grassroots members who are completely dismayed by all this.

But I am very disillusioned and close to resigning. I cannot believe that Keir and others aren't intelligent enough to see that they are just tying themselves up in semantic knots in order to 'be kind' to men, while not even allowing themselves to use normal language about biological sex, never mind being kind to us. I voted for him as leader, and I wanted someone who could tread carefully between the different factions i.e. be unifying. But there's treading carefully and there's cowardice. Now is the time to speak very clearly in support of biological WOMEN, that majority among voters who are currently be shat on left, right and centre. Not only do we deserve politicians with more integrity, but many of us are just waiting for someone to say the right thing to get our vote - it's utterly stupid to pander to a tiny, bullying, misogynist minority, many of whom may not even be old enough to vote yet, and disrespect millions of actual female voters (plus plenty of men who also think this is dangerous nonsense).

[ElizabethTudor]

@LyingWitchInTheWardrobe

I am going to write to my MP, Chris Evans. I've not met him but have corresponded with him over the years and found him decent enough. He deserves to know why he can never have my vote again.

I’ve done this, with my own Labour MP, who is excellent and who I have voted for, for the past 13 years.
But this is the straw that broke the camel’s back. And whilst she is a great MP, I cannot vote for a party that is so obviously against women.

[ElizabethTudor]

Don’t know who the fuck I am going to vote for now. Not the Tories, obviously.

[ElizabethTudor]

Not the Lib Dems, also for obvious reasons.

[PatchworkElmer]

I don’t know who to vote for now 😔

I’m personally ok with saying ‘women and trans men have a cervix’. I’m not ok with reducing us all to the state of ‘people with a cervix’.

[ifIwerenotanandroid]

I watched the whole programme waiting for Marr to say something. It was a beautiful ambush. The question came out of nowhere.

What a waste of space Starmer was. He said nothing about women's rights but twice said trans people are the most marginalised. Really??

I resigned from the Labour Party when they wouldn't support women & I haven't seen any reason to go back.