It shouldn’t be said that “only women have a cervix”.

[Paddingtonsmarmaladesandwiches]

Watching Keir Stammer on Marr this morning scrambling to answer whether or not it is transphobic to say “only women have a cervix” was the final nail in the coffin for me this morning with Labour. In the aftermath of The Lancet calling women, “bodies with vaginas”, I think I’ve finally figured out that the current belief system is that transwomen are women, but women who were observed female at birth are “bodies with vaginas”. Clearly Labour aren’t in need of the votes of bodies with vaginas, brains and a spine.

Some species can change sex but human beings cannot. Pretending you are a woman should not give you access to female facilities because most crimes against the person are committed by men. Safeguarding women trumps any rights that trans people may wish to claim, purely on the grounds of sheer numbers.

Yep,another Labour vote lost here.

Ffs.

@Evenstar

I joined the Labour Party and voted for Keir Starmer as leader, I feel very let down. We need to get the Tories out but that will never happen whilst Labour spout this nonsense.

I will never vote Tory,, but Labour and the Lib Dem’s don’t seem to want women to vote for them, which party can we go to escape this nonsense and be respected as women?

Why don't we start a MN party?

@AChickenCalledDaal

I'm curious how a gender critical person would like the medical profession to communicate with people who absolutely reject the title "woman", but do require regular cervical smears in the interests of their health?

It's a pretty live issue for me, since my eldest child would be in that category. I would certainly not want them to swerve vitally important health checks because of the language used.

I also really dislike "bodies with cervixes" ... but it's clearly not as simple as just saying "you're a woman" "no I'm not" "yes you are" ad nauseam until everyone falls out.

One way to deal with it would be for a person's NHS records to have separate sex markers and gender markers. That way a trans person's medical needs could be fully catered for, helping to prevent issues like this: www.independent.co.uk/life-style/health-and-families/cervical-cancer-trans-patients-discrimination-b1849370.html

Well, good luck Kier with only the Trans vote to get you in.

@Lunaduckdrop

Some species can change sex but human beings cannot. Pretending you are a woman should not give you access to female facilities because most crimes against the person are committed by men. Safeguarding women trumps any rights that trans people may wish to claim, purely on the grounds of sheer numbers.

This post makes complete sense. It is entirely factual. It makes me livid that so many people would class your words as ‘trans-phobic’ though.

Just because it’s fucking fashionable to be ‘woke’

@Gingernaut

Why is it all about women?

Surely it's just as offensive to state all men have a penis?

Why is it always women and girls who are being used as canaries down the social policy mine?

All human women and girls have vaginas and cervixes

All human men and boys have penises

Particularly since most trans are female to male, because being female is so shit.

@Ajl46 thank you for that article, which articulates what I'm concerned about very well. It's also given me some rather specific questions to ask my child about how they registered with their new GP (away at university).

"They let it be known they were weavers, and they said they could weave the most magnificent fabrics imaginable. Not only were their colors and patterns uncommonly fine, but clothes made of this cloth had a wonderful way of becoming invisible to anyone who was unfit for his office, or who was unusually stupid."

...

"So off went the Emperor in procession under his splendid canopy. Everyone in the streets and the windows said, "Oh, how fine are the Emperor's new clothes! Don't they fit him to perfection? And see his long train!" Nobody would confess that he couldn't see anything, for that would prove him either unfit for his position, or a fool."

(A c&p job - note that 'everyone' is a 'he'!)

I had my cervix removed last year so what does that make me? ex cervix haver

@Runningwithoutstopping

I had my cervix removed last year so what does that make me? ex cervix haver

I've had mine removed, too, during a BSO total hysterectomy for "women's problems"

Only women have a cervix. Only women can have a cervix removed.

@SchadenfreudePersonified

Do they wish to acknowledge in a medical setting that they are still, and will always be biologically female and this will affect much of their medical treatment. Of course if they request it they can be referred to as male, but in reality the doctors need to know their biology.

Just last week there was a news article regarding a transman who wan't called for a routine smear test, and now has developed cervical cancer. (S)he was dentified as male on medical records whiich (s)he had had changed, and which also, at his/her request removed any reference to biological sex.

(S)he is blaming the NHS for not being acknowledging that there are men with cervixes blahdeblahdeblah. It seems that routine smear tests should be offered to everybody just on the off chance.

Actually I don't think (happily) the person in question did have cervical cancer. The smear was fine. It was a bizarre BBC article that seemed to have no point except for doing the whole 'will no one think of the trans' bollocks the BBC seems to specialise in at the moment.

@SailYourShips

What can we do to stop this mind bending shit becoming an accepted 'truth'?

What can you do?

Get angry. Get vocal. Talk to people in real life, many of whom don't really know the extent of what is going on.

If you think this will go away on its' own, it won't. There are too many vested interests pushing this. Women need to push back hard in order to resist this.

The end game here is Self ID, which would mean that ANY man can simply fill out a form and be declared legally a woman (no, I'm not kidding, that's the law in Ireland currently). This would effectively mean an end to women only spaces. Men in women's prisons, men in women's sports teams, men on 'women only' boards and groups etc etc. It's already happening.

Look up the Denton report for the IGLYO. Denton's are a law firm that compiled a report a few years ago, outlining how to get Self ID law pushed though. Recommendations include:

• target youth politicians

• avoid media scrutiny
• piggyback on more popular legislation

Interestingly, the report has been removed from Denton's website, but if you google you can still find it on the IGLYO website. It's grim reading.

They know well that the voting public, if given the full facts, would never go for this. So they use subterfuge and threats, and shut down any debate. It has worked for a while, but the tide is turning.

Here in Ireland, we were not consulted about this, it was brought in by stealth. Actually, that was kind of what was supposed to happen in England too, but Theresa May's government collapsed over the Brexit deal and it was shelved. This allowed women's groups to mobilise and sound the alarm about what Self ID really means for women and girls.

I urge you to push back against this before it is made law. It will be a long way back for us here in Ireland and the government don't care, and the media are ignoring it. They report male sex offenders as women.

So what can you do? Email your MP, join up to one of the grassroots women's groups (like Sex Matters), and you will get even more angry as you will be sent updates of all the stuff that is going on, but you will also be inspired that there are many women out there who are just as frustrated and angry as you are.

Talk to family and friends if you can. I know it's a touchy subject, but most people don't scratch the surface and just see this as a gay rights issue - it isn't!

I never thought I would call myself a radical feminist but here we are.

I used to be a member of the Labour party but no longer. There is no one left for me to vote for. Listening to the shadow chancellor Rachel Reeves on LBC stuttering and stumbling to avoid answering the question "Do only women have a cervix" was very upsetting and reminded me of Lisa Tandy when asked a similar question before the general election. The Greens refer to women as non men and it's only thanks to Liz Truss that the Tories haven't gone the same way as the SNP. As to Starmers replies on the Andrew Marr show words fail me.
Reeves said that women and transwomen were two groups that needed protection. Do you know how many transwomen have been murdered this year or last year - none. How many natal women with cervixes murdered last year? - 188 and I think the number this year will be higher and don't get me started on the number of rapes and sexual assaults and the fear that all women have of being attacked just because they are women and seen as prey.
I think it's obvious I am extremely angry especially after the bodies with vaginas atrocity by the Lancet.
Why are women treated with such a lack of respect when without us the world would grind to a halt.
I'm off to tai chi. I think I need to calm down. :(

Yawn...more transphobia from mumsnet

At least come up with a coherent arguement for the other side then that actually makes a shred of sense and isn't just accusing someone of being transphobic or repeatedly spouting TWAW.

Insisting something is doesn't make it so.

There seems to have been a lot on twitter recently about how "woman" has changed from a sex term to a gender term and so whilst TW are Male, their gender is Woman. Apparently we are just changing the meaning of words now to fit what we want them to mean?

Woman is defined as an adult human female.

You'd have thought labour world have learnt something from having Corbyn and being so unelectable that even their party faithful (who would vote for a red rosette on a donkey) wouldn't vote for them.
Then they roll out captain Hindsight who's so sat on the fence on anything important that he's at risk of splitting himself and getting a mangina. Never mind his woke pandering.
And that's before you consider they would put the likes of abacus Abbott in their cabinet.
It's like they don't want to be elected - though maybe it's easier sitting in opposition, not having to make the hard decisions, make the odd criticism and collect the paycheques.

Also lots of "they choose to live as a woman" but an absolutely incapability to explain what that means and what defines them as a woman. It's honestly laughable. There is no argument other than "we say so therefore you have to agree".

I don’t have a clue who to vote for because all left learning parties follow this belief and there’s no way I’d ever vote Tory, not unless someone held me at knife point. I actually found myself agreeing with Sajid Javid yesterday and couldn’t believe he was speaking more sense than most of the Labour Party. Kudos to Duffield.

Come to think of it, I may have to spoil my ballot paper next time and I’ll probably write something along the lines of ‘stop trying to eradicate women’.

@TortillaBonita

Well, good luck Kier with only the Trans vote to get you in.

They won't vote for him either, at least not while Rosie Duffield still has the whip.

No one is happy with Labour's position on women's rights.

Same here. Agreeing with Sajid Javid. Has it really come to this??

I will not vote labour. Because voting labour will just be repeating the pattern of deep cultural misogyny, millenia old, that there is ALWAYS something that is more important than standing up for women. Aid workers abusing women? Better keep it quiet or it will damage our charity! Men of colour sexually torturing girls? Better keep it quiet than be accused of racism! FGM going on? Better not affect community relations by talking about it!.

And there is always a reason to tackle something else that is wrong before tacking what affects women. I'm not standing for that anymore. Either women are seen as human as men are, in which case issues that affect us matter equally, or they are not seen as fully human. And I can never support the latter position.

deadleaves

Indeed, reputation, it's always been so, happens in family and with individuals too not just institutions.

Labour sure plan on taxing women just as much as men in their new plans, even down to children's shoes apparently and who is most likely to purchase them?

Well I’ve sent an enquiry on the policy contact form someone helpfully posted earlier. I’m not holding my breath. I’m terrified by the whole thing.

Absolutely do not vote for Labour under the current circumstances! If they don't know what a woman is how on earth do you expect them to run the country?

The existence of women is not a trans issue.