To think that 'eat less move more', everything in moderation and CICO is total bollox?

[Honestopinion23]

CICO stands for calories in vs calories out by the way.
I often read the weight loss section on here. Every day there are people embarking on any number of diets and body overhauls and I reckon about 95% of them are unsuccessful. Calorie counting, shake diets, you name it, people always gain the weight back before long. Even celebrities who seem to have done well with weight loss eventually gain it back, e.g. Pauline Quirke. I am watching that new amazon show with Melissa McCarthy and she is also back to being around the same size she was before starting her weight loss. Lisa Riley is another one who lost a lot of weight and most of it is back now. Clearly it's not working and people are making money out of telling fat people that they can be thin if only they want it bad enough or try hard enough. The scientific research shows that once you are morbidly obese, you have an absolutely miniscule chance of getting to and maintaining a normal BMI without surgery. Yes, there will no doubt be people popping up here saying they did just that but you are the exception.

The idea that if you just eat less than you burn is also flawed when a) your body adapts to lower amounts. For instance, those who have gastric bypass and eat v low calories forever still tend to be overweight/mildly obese because their bodies just can't get to a low BMI and b) you're fighting against intense hunger urges that someone who has always been normal weight just can't imagine dealing with.

If I was morbidly obese, I would ditch all the dieting crap, admit that I couldn't fix it and have surgery. I see so many dieting plans just blame the dieter for 'failure' when they're trying to do something impossible. If I was stage 1 obese or overweight, I'd go low carb no-processed for life because I think that is the only thing that switches off the hunger signals in the brain.

usually triggered by extreme cravings that they can’t resist

Yes, they can. They choose not to. Eating unhealthily is something that can be controlled with education, a sense of self-worth, awareness and discipline.

Well, if cico was remotely effective, then we wouldn't have the problems that we have today.

But it is effective. Its just not as easy as that for many people as issues around eating and weight are often wrapped up in other things that aren't addressed by just saying it's all about calories. That doesn't mean that as a biological principle it isn't accurate, it just means that for it to be applied effectively it should be in conjunction with other things.

@LindaEllen

It IS the answer, and isn't bollocks. Unfortunately most people just don't have the motivation or will power to keep it up in the long term. They focus on losing weight, but not then maintaining their new, healthy weight.

If it's not sustainable (and it rarely is), it doesn't work, does it? Unless you think that a large proportion of the population lacks willpower and just doesn't want it enough. Of course people know about maintenance. It's hardly some new concept you've invented. It just so happens that it is unsustainable in the long run and it's not for want of trying.

Yyou have to change your mindset and what you do but generally it does work unless your body defies physics, your body cannot creat fat out of thin air, and you need to burn more than you put in simply.

What people want these days is quick fixes, oh and eat your food don't do shakes like Herbalife as they are just trash.

I'm horrified at people on here who basically think having surgery is an answer it should only be used in extreme cases and if you go that route you will have learnt nothing and will go back to how you were.

I have lost over 2 stone since May. I had put on weight during lock down, the only thing that helped shift it was reducing calories. i had to be strict and count every calorie and its worked for me.

@usernc

I think we can assume that previously morbidly obese celebrities who are now slim have had surgery. It is much easier for slim people to stay slim than obese people to get slim, that is where some of the CiCo crap stems from.

Why would you assume that? Far more likely they've paid for personalised diet plans, personal trainers, chefs and home gyms.

Having money and spare time most definitely makes it easier.

@Honestopinion23 it's like banging your head against a brick wall though isn't it after a while? I'm so sick of people attributing some weird moral judgement to weight.

I'm currently in a pit of self loathing over my weight.
I'm 5 foot 2 and 16 stone 8 lbs.
I hate myself. I hate how I look and how I feel.
I have been fighting with my weight since I went to university. Which was a loong time ago. I'm 52.
I have done SW and WW as well as IF etc etc
Recently I dropped to 800 calories a day as I was worried about Type 2 diabetes. For about 4 weeks of the 8 I dropped weight - lost about a stone- and then, despite sticking to 800 calories - low carb etc - I stopped losing weight. I did an experiment and dropped my calories further and a tine bit more weight came off then stopped. I weighed everything and measured everything religiously.
I realised then that to get to anything like a 'normal' weight for my height I would have to restrict my calories to a stupidly low amount and I just CAN'T sustain that for the rest of my life.
Years of dieting have fucked up my metabolism.
I am in complete despair.
And if one more person (Mother I'm looking at you) says eat less move more I will go postal.

I do know that when I drop wheat and sugar I feel better.
I've read Why We Eat (Too Much) and found it interesting. I'm going to reread and get back to the principles as I felt better when following htem. I also have The Obesity Code on my bookshelf.

I just hate it. And I hate the attitude that abounds that makes me out to be a lazt lardy arse with no motivation and delusions about my eating habits.

Yes, they can. They choose not to. Eating unhealthily is something that can be controlled with education, a sense of self-worth, awareness and discipline.

Total rubbish and said by someone who hasn't experienced what so many overweight and obese people do. It also assumes that all overweight people eat junk food, which is not true.

CICO is interesting.....yes it should be physics except (and this is anecdotal) I had two dogs. One died a year ago of cancer and his brother is now almost 14. They were litter brothers with me since 7 weeks old. They ate the same food and were taken out together for their exercise. One needed about half again as much food to keep him in good condition as the other one. If they were fed the same amount either one dog quickly got very ribby or the other one started to chub up. On top of this, the skinny one was the idlest dog I have ever had and his plumper brother would be on the go all day. Both fit healthy and normal. Go figure.

[quote Namelessnancy]@Honestopinion23 it's like banging your head against a brick wall though isn't it after a while? I'm so sick of people attributing some weird moral judgement to weight.[/quote]
I agree. I am not sure why people are so insistent that it works. Even people who have been back and forth to Slimming World twenty times will swear blind that the diet works really well but that they were a lazy fat cow who couldn't stick to it. Also people who are naturally slim telling us that this is only because of their superior levels of discipline, which all fat people lack. I hope more people start to listen to the science. It changed my world when I learned this stuff and it's made me slimmer, whereas blaming myself made me fatter.

Unless you think that a large proportion of the population lacks willpower and just doesn't want it enough

This is a misconception that many people buy into. There are so so many people though, who are massively determined and committed and disciplined and successful in all areas of their life except this. It's really not about that. It's about the conditions we created for our bodies to work with. We are given the wrong guidance, which creates an environment where we feel a strong biological 'need' to eat more of the food that will maintain/increase our body fat. Saying 'Just stop eating crap' is a bit like saying 'I'm going to stamp on your toes, but just stop saying ouch'. It's practically an impossible ask, however hard you try.

@Sarahlou63

usually triggered by extreme cravings that they can’t resist

Yes, they can. They choose not to. Eating unhealthily is something that can be controlled with education, a sense of self-worth, awareness and discipline.

You clearly haven't a clue. Your ignorance is laughable.

@MrsHood

So what’s the answer then?

I think prevention is important. I see some MNers trying to argue that people who aren't overweight shouldn't diet, but I think medium and chubby people might want to get the problem under control before it gets too late. Also possible more mental health emphasis and counselling for overeaters. There may be biological reasons why dieting doesn't work for some people, but there are also psychological reasons why they fall off the wagon.

Well those things worked for me, and continue to do so at present, despite the (supposed) added disadvantage of being over 50, when the accepted wisdom is that weight loss is as good as impossible. I'm not smug, as I am not confident of maintaining long term, as to do so requires me to consume far less calories than I'd like to, although clearly not less than I need. But if and when I 'fail' it won't be because cico is BS, it will be because I couldn't stop myself consuming excess calories.

You won’t get support here OP. 99% of women on diets but in to this nonsense and the remaining population who have never dieted because they’ve never needed to have also been brainwashed.

It is only those of us who have been appropriately educated who understand what you’re saying.

The answer to sustainable weight loss is to cut out all junk food for 99% of the time and have any mental health issues dealt with (as the vast majority aren’t fat because they’re thick and don’t understand what they should or shouldn’t be eating, it’s a coping mechanism). There are a few who are a victim of circumstance because of the environment and the society we live in now and there are of course exceptions to every rule, but in my experience, I’m right. Nobody I know who is fat is happy about it and they’ve all ‘tried everything’

@Honestopinion23

Yes, they can. They choose not to. Eating unhealthily is something that can be controlled with education, a sense of self-worth, awareness and discipline.

Total rubbish and said by someone who hasn't experienced what so many overweight and obese people do. It also assumes that all overweight people eat junk food, which is not true.

Your response is incorrect (and shows your desperation to prove your theory with zero information).

I was overweight in my early teens and then again in my mid/late twenties. I educated myself about nutrition and realised the only person responsible for my weight was me. No one else shoved the food in my mouth.

I am now 58 and have maintained my weight (+/- 4kg) for the last 30 years.

Junk food isn't the issue - eating too much for too long is.

I don't believe it is a con.
I've 3 slim friends who are slim, all active/hyper types with small appetites.

Some who struggle but genuinely over eat, pick at food throughout the day, rarely exercise.
My Dsis was shocked when she started an honest food diary.

An example watching gogglebox the Dsis's Ellie and Izzy.
Ellie never stops talking about food, over eating every series she gets bigger and bigger, clearly addicted.
I'm re-watching the old ones the difference is shocking in a few years.

Why would you assume that? Far more likely they've paid for personalised diet plans, personal trainers, chefs and home gyms.

Fairly unlikely. The ones I mentioned in the OP (and Dawn French can be added to that list) could afford diet plans and PTs, yet they haven't managed to maintain a significant weight loss. I think WLS among celebrities is much more widespread than we know.

It also assumes that all overweight people eat junk food, which is not true.

I dont think they do, but I think most would be hard pressed to be overweight if they ate certain foods/ meals.

Ie. If you have melon and proscuttio for lunch. Thats a hell of a lot of melon and proscuttio your going to need to eat to be overweight.

@JeffVaderneedsatray

I'm currently in a pit of self loathing over my weight. I'm 5 foot 2 and 16 stone 8 lbs. I hate myself. I hate how I look and how I feel. I have been fighting with my weight since I went to university. Which was a loong time ago. I'm 52. I have done SW and WW as well as IF etc etc Recently I dropped to 800 calories a day as I was worried about Type 2 diabetes. For about 4 weeks of the 8 I dropped weight - lost about a stone- and then, despite sticking to 800 calories - low carb etc - I stopped losing weight. I did an experiment and dropped my calories further and a tine bit more weight came off then stopped. I weighed everything and measured everything religiously. I realised then that to get to anything like a 'normal' weight for my height I would have to restrict my calories to a stupidly low amount and I just CAN'T sustain that for the rest of my life. Years of dieting have fucked up my metabolism. I am in complete despair. And if one more person (Mother I'm looking at you) says eat less move more I will go postal.

I do know that when I drop wheat and sugar I feel better.
I've read Why We Eat (Too Much) and found it interesting. I'm going to reread and get back to the principles as I felt better when following htem. I also have The Obesity Code on my bookshelf.

I just hate it. And I hate the attitude that abounds that makes me out to be a lazt lardy arse with no motivation and delusions about my eating habits.

Yes I agree. I would have to starve myself to lose weight. No matter, what slim people think about healthy living, if you many stone to lose and you already have a slow metabolism and not eating much (e.g. if the issues are long-term and perhaps related to lack of activity rather than overeating), then I can't see how to lose these few stones. Plus I am also a bit of a shortarse, which unfairly means even fewer calories are required/allowed and it is easier to get/be fat. I only lost weight when I was massively ill with something covid-like 10 years ago. Seems a bit extreme: starve or suffer a wasting health-altering illness. Now I will be piled on by slim people who KNOW it is doable and just eating a little less each day and moving a little more etc. And not wanting to leave the house because the slim people look and sneer at the fattie doesn't help.

It is sustainable if it part of a complete lifestyle change, and changing your relationship with food and activity, I have friends who have done it

And on the above, I think thats the problem. Its very expensive to eat these kinds of meals reguluarly.

@Sweetbabyrays

I agree CICO doesn’t always work. Once your body has reached its ‘set point’ you are always going to be fighting it, and 9/10 it will be back… read burn by Herman pontzer, he’s done years and years of research on this. Especially the exercise to loose weight arguments.

Not every scientist believes in the 'set point' theory.

@Honestopinion23

Why would you assume that? Far more likely they've paid for personalised diet plans, personal trainers, chefs and home gyms.

Fairly unlikely. The ones I mentioned in the OP (and Dawn French can be added to that list) could afford diet plans and PTs, yet they haven't managed to maintain a significant weight loss. I think WLS among celebrities is much more widespread than we know.

Well even then, all it can do is make them eat less...and there are ways to game even that system.