To think that grown men on trains shouldn't behave like this?

[Iamnotminterested]

I travelled from Euston to Manchester this evening. Within 2 minutes of getting on the train most of the seats around me were taken by football fans who'd travelled down to watch Man City v Chelsea, who pretty much straight away cracked open can after can of lager and shouted/responded football chants down the carriage...except that these weren't young fans, but rather men in their 50s and 60s who quite frankly were a fucking embarrassment, and I as a single female traveller mid-carriage felt mightily uncomfortable.

AIBU to think that men of this age should get a grip and not behave on public transport this way, and make me (and the other women who I spoke to after at Piccadilly) feel uncomfortable and glad to arrive?

@XenoBitch

Because the groups of men I was around would make comments to women in the process -especially “pretty” ones. Even women that looked pissed off a comment would be made to, like “cheer up love” etc. Never to a man tho.

Why is that so hard for you to understand?

@Stovetopespresso

bunch of pissed up man-chlids think they rule the world. At best annoying, at worst intimidating.

but...its a free country I guess...well done pp for bollocking the anti semitic sing song though!

I concur! I find much of what men do in public groups irritating, anti-social, intimidating, misogynistic and offensive. Swearing, shouting and spitting often seem to be perfectly acceptable to these types and it disgusts me.

Confronting a bunch of anti-semitic song-singing twats is, in my view, amazingly brave for a woman to do by herself and I salute her for it.

I've approached/been approached by so many women on public transport whether travelling in daylight hours or at night to ask if we can sit together, and it's getting more common that younger women approach me for this purpose.

@GoingOutOutNEVER

Move carriage

Have you ever tried walking through a large group of drunks, especially drunk men, on a moving train? A woman above mentions getting up for the toilet, being asked for a quickie and then insulted when she asserted herself. It can be intimidating and frightening. Women can be, and have been, assaulted.

Do you realise, on the day of a football match with people travelling from somewhere like Euston to Liverpool or Leeds, it's not just 10 or 15 people you are likely to encounter, it could be about 70% of the train? Firstly you'd be lucky to find an empty seat. Secondly, you may need to walk through 5 or 6 carriages of loud drunken yobs as a lone woman before you find a seat. The unreserved carriage is often the worst. Euston to Manchester in the evening is frequently packed like sardines with no seats at all.

I always book the quiet carriage if travelling alone and where possible but not every train has a quiet coach.

And what if your aren't travelling alone and you have children with you to find seats for?

I had to travel between Sheffield and Barnsley a lot by train for work, sometimes late at night up to the last train home.

It was almost always filled with football fans in season, always chanting, shouting, screaming and sometimes fighting.

I'm 5 foot tall. I was always very scared. And to be fair the conductors probably were as well because they never asked them to pipe down probably through intimidation.

I hate it. I can't stand football.

I have experienced @Theworldishard. I wrote that my post as someone who was threatened and nearly robbed by two other women on a train. The difference is that I’m not afraid of other females because I know I can easily defend myself against the majority of them, if someone decides to put her hands on me. It’s men that scare me. Most women are not significantly stronger then me. Women do not rape.

@LaBellina

I have experienced *@Theworldishard*. I wrote that my post as someone who was threatened and nearly robbed by two other women on a train. The difference is that I’m not afraid of other females because I know I can easily defend myself against the majority of them, if someone decides to put her hands on me. It’s men that scare me. Most women are not significantly stronger then me. Women do not rape.

Your last sentence is shocking

I find your rape excusing on the other thread more shocking.

You’re the last person who should try to educate others on what’s shocking.

I was on a train back out of London with football fans last week.

Yes it was noisy, but it was high spirited, not aggressive. By far the worst behaviour was from one very drunk woman who was with them and an all female group who (I assume) had nothing to do with football.

@VestaTilley

YANBU. It’s intimidating and horrible.

My proudest moment ever as an adult is tackling 8 drunk Arsenal fans going home on the train to Bournemouth after a match. They’d been playing Spurs and were singing really antisemitic songs. I shot down the carriage, alone, and bollocked them. They shut up, and the ringleader was actually really sorry and came and sat by me for ages apologizing!

I think because I shouted at them that they were being antisemitic that shamed them, but if I’d just shouted at them for being loud and antisocial they’d have probably just laughed in my face (or worse).

I hate it though, it’s a louty male dominance display and the police ought to crack down on it.

If they were calling them Y*ds, even Spurs fans call themselves that, it's their nickname.

Maybe I should correct it because people like you try to take everything out of context.

I have never heard of a group of women raping another woman in a train.
Unfortunately plenty of stories are out there if men who do this.

Didn't they used to ban alcohol on trains on match day.

I caught a metro with ds1 on match day, a few years back. Lots of loud chanting and choice words. We got off a few stops after they got on and caught a slow bus, instead, as it was so intimidating.

Maybe you should watch the documentary about the 2012 Delhi Gang Rape and murder case on Netflix @Theworldishard. And see what men in groups on public transport are capable of. I have never heard of any woman participating in this activity. At least you can’t deny this happened as the perpetrators were caught and convicted, after all you said rape on another thread didn’t happen because it wasn’t reported to the police.

@LaBellina

Maybe you should watch the documentary about the 2012 Delhi Gang Rape and murder case on Netflix *@Theworldishard*. And see what men in groups on public transport are capable of. I have never heard of any woman participating in this activity. At least you can’t deny this happened as the perpetrators were caught and convicted, after all you said rape on another thread didn’t happen because it wasn’t reported to the police.

Now who's taking everything out of context?

You are stalking and harrrassing me now.

And fyi I did not say that, stop stirring the pot and derailing this thread.
Perhaps find something better to do with your Sunday, given your intense attachment to Mumsnet.

Don’t start quoting me first and reacting to my post on this thread if you don’t want an answer and then try to gaslight your way out of it. Trust me, I rather not engage with posters like you.

@Theworldishard

And fyi I did not say that, stop stirring the pot and derailing this thread. Perhaps find something better to do with your Sunday, given your intense attachment to Mumsnet.

Only if you start educating yourself on victim blaming and rape excusing.

Away fans are usually typically like this and its such a shame as it stops other fans going to more away matches.

@LaBellina

Don’t start quoting me first and reacting to my post on this thread if you don’t want an answer and then try to gaslight your way out of it. Trust me, I rather not engage with posters like you.

You've really signed up to all these terms haven't you... Goodbye. Have a lovely day 💙

@LaBellina

Maybe I should correct it because people like you try to take everything out of context.

I have never heard of a group of women raping another woman in a train.
Unfortunately plenty of stories are out there if men who do this.

No, you were right first time, LaBellina, women do not rape. They can't. They can't be all other horrible things that men can but they cannot rape. I was educated on this here actually, at the time I thought this was possible but it's not.

Thanks @LyingWitchInTheWardrobe

@Theworldishard

And fyi I did not say that, stop stirring the pot and derailing this thread. Perhaps find something better to do with your Sunday, given your intense attachment to Mumsnet.

You're the one doing the harassing now.

@GoingOutOutNEVER

Why were you uncomfortable? They were were being daft and loud but that shouldn’t affect you unless they were doing anything directly to you. Nice carriage if it bothered you that men were having fun on a trip away from home.

Not the OP, but have experienced loud drunk behaviour on trains when travelling with my kids. Yes, they were just having fun, nothing wrong with that, but alcohol is unpredictable, you don't know if they can just turn and get aggressive. Nothing to do with the fact they were blokes either, Id have felt exactly the same if it was a group of pissed up, shouting women. It's intimidating. I love a drink (or several) but on a train where families/single people are? No. There's just no need, it's called consideration for others.

Getting on a train with football fans is horrible. The times I have done it I have always regretted it. That feeling that no one will help you if things turn does not go until I get off the train.

Eugh. It is intimidating and selfish.

Ahh yes everyone wants to hear you bellowing down a train constantly. I hate people thinking the world revolves around them and everyone should look at them. It's just like people playing music out loud on a train but intimidating so even worse.

It is shit for people who are stuck with these drunks. I don't think it's limited to an age group though - men in their 20s/30s do it too