To panic about the dire state of the UK?

[moveblues]

So... all things considered... aren't we up sh-t creek?
-gas and electricity prices
-covid (masks? Pfft completed Covid mate (in England))
-council tax hikes
-inflation
-food shortages
-Brexit
-petrol

Sounds like something out of a dystopian nightmare. I'm worried dear reader, and 'keep calm and carry on' doesn't help.

[quote gofg]**@Evesgarden* & @marieantoinehairnet*

What are you talking about when you quote my post?? All I said is "It really isn't everywhere" in response to a post saying that it's not just the UK, it's everywhere.

I don't live in the UK - or even in Europe - I was merely pointing out that the issues the UK seems to be facing at the moment are not happening "everywhere" in the world[/quote]
No They are much worse!

@Generallystruggling

Yep, I totally agree. Feel even more dismayed because I didn’t vote for any of it, neither did anyone I know. We’re all suffering due to things we didn’t ask for. That’s democracy though, init. We’re gonna end up like a sorry starving country in the Eastern bloc.

But a lot of the eastern bloc is mostly part of the EU now and has been for years 🤣 We won’t turn into them overnight, or ever. I think we forget that our neighbours need us too, not just the other way around I agree that Brexit was the worst idea EVER, but it won’t destroy the UK. Maybe this is me being overly optimistic, but I hope with all my heart that I’m right

My advice is not to panic now because the worst is yet to come.

Autumn and winter will be brutal for Covid, we now have fuel shortages and logistics issues which seem to get worse by the day. Lots of denial and everything will be ok but the crux of the matter is we are in a very dire situation and our way of life and standard of living is now under threat.

My worry is how rapidly this could spiral out of control and the implications it will have on our society. The fact we have an utterly useless oaf as PM leading the way says it all really.

@Redruby2020

I wonder who will help us, as we have helped so many. Or will we now be in trouble because of the Brexit vote etc and left to rot.

Yep, my question too. The UK has helped soooooo many countries and neighbours. Remember the payouts to Spain and Greece? While Brexit was a bad decision, it’s the decision of the majority in this country (the majority were wrong, but it’s happened now), and the world should accept and respect it. The EU appears as though they are sulking because of hurt pride and pettiness more than anything- they almost want the UK to fail, and I wonder if that will make them even more reluctant to help where needed.

The question is, do we need help? At the moment, we urgently need lorry drivers and majority of the short term crisis will be averted.

Imagine if we opened up temporary visas for lorry drivers and workers from the EU apply in thousands. It will be so ironic, and both UK and EU will look utterly stupid for different reasons.

Jesus Christ - we are actually at Chicken lickin...

Chin up, have a cup of tea, we will be ok

It all feels fucked. Only places i feel like the truth of how bad things are is being discussed in the mainstream media is amongst Left-wing pundits on shows like Question Time (David Lammy this week) and their fellow panelists with front line experience where shit has hit the fan (also on QT this week, the Iceland boss) and the Lefty presenters on places like LBC (James O’Brien, Natasha Devon) and Channel 4 News. All other areas of the media are whistling past the graveyard.

As for the government themselves, they’re actively telling us that black is white. But as others have said, the British public would probably still vote the cunts in again.

@Eealoty

To anyone thinking other countries have it worse in Europe. There are indeed deeper issues at hand here in the UK. It's a rotten mentality we have. Have you visited an Eastern European country in recent years (I'm not even talking about Nordic). Romania, Poland? It was beautiful. Well kept little towns on cobbled streets with civilised restaurants.. filled with locals. No drunks falling around everywhere. NO homeless. No crass behaviour around. That was my experience of a visit - off the beaten track - in an "eastern bloc" country. However, . .. Keep believing the British exceptionalism is real. It's what everyone goes back to when the media leaves out any other narrative.

This!

@BobbiPink

Oh not this againScotland won’t immediately be part of the EU and may not even qualify for quite some time. You won’t be able to retain the pound, and for reasons that baffle me, the pound continues to be stronger than the euro even post Brexit. There are many more arguments, but I’m very sleepy now …

Wow, what a random conclusion to jump to with regards to the EU. I don't think I mentioned anything to do with the EU did I?

But I agree, there are many arguments. A relevant one at the moment is energy. Right now bills are rising across the UK yet Scotland met 90+% of its energy needs through renewables and given that Scotland contains 96% of the UKs oil resource and 65% of it's natural gas resource, and 25% of EUROPE'S offshore energy capacity, it's a fairly safe bet to say we'd be able to supply ourselves with more than enough energy as an independent country, if we didn't have to also use our resources to meet the demand of an additional 60 million people. Yet despite our apparent energy surplus we have some of the highest energy bills in Europe. Why is that???

On your pound argument that's a bit up in the air tbh. The "Great British" pound is as Scottish as it is English as it is Welsh as it is Nothern Irish. Any right to it's use would have to be negotiated upon a split, but (and it's a big but) there are literally hundreds of other currencies used around the world. If India, Russia, Canada, Finland, Iceland, Brazil, Ghana, Norway and New Zealand (to name a few) can survive without using the GBP then why would Scotland struggle?

Finally, if the rest of the UK decided to be dicks about us leaving then we've a really, really big ace in the hole. We simply stop access to our water. Considering 90% of the UKs fresh water supply is in Scotland, you'd be well and truly fucked if we turned the taps off.

I don't know what you're moaning about?! I was really well off before the pandemic and now I'm fucking loaded.

I don’t think we are fucked… not quite yet anyway but it’s a shit time

@MyPatronusIsACat

Anyone who thinks any other Government would have done better, with Brexit, Covid, lack of lorry drivers, NHS crisis, food shortages, and petrol issues blah blah blah, is utterly deluded.

No other Government would have done any better. Just thank your lucky stars that Jeremy Corbyn lost the election, or you'd have had HIM running the show. THEN you'd have good reason to panic!!!

Take a bow for the most fatuous, utterly crass comment I have seen to date on Mumsnet.

Don't be so utterly bloody ridiculous. What other government has spaffed 37 billion on a Track and Trace system that never worked, presided over by Dido Harding, a woman with no relevant experience? We have one of the worst death rates from Covid and one of the worst economic recoveries and all you can do is feebly claim that Corbyn would have been worse.
It really is time that Tory voters began to take responsibility for the shitshow that they have visited upon us all.

[quote Bucanarab]@BobbiPink

Oh not this againScotland won’t immediately be part of the EU and may not even qualify for quite some time. You won’t be able to retain the pound, and for reasons that baffle me, the pound continues to be stronger than the euro even post Brexit. There are many more arguments, but I’m very sleepy now …

Wow, what a random conclusion to jump to with regards to the EU. I don't think I mentioned anything to do with the EU did I?

But I agree, there are many arguments. A relevant one at the moment is energy. Right now bills are rising across the UK yet Scotland met 90+% of its energy needs through renewables and given that Scotland contains 96% of the UKs oil resource and 65% of it's natural gas resource, and 25% of EUROPE'S offshore energy capacity, it's a fairly safe bet to say we'd be able to supply ourselves with more than enough energy as an independent country, if we didn't have to also use our resources to meet the demand of an additional 60 million people. Yet despite our apparent energy surplus we have some of the highest energy bills in Europe. Why is that???

On your pound argument that's a bit up in the air tbh. The "Great British" pound is as Scottish as it is English as it is Welsh as it is Nothern Irish. Any right to it's use would have to be negotiated upon a split, but (and it's a big but) there are literally hundreds of other currencies used around the world. If India, Russia, Canada, Finland, Iceland, Brazil, Ghana, Norway and New Zealand (to name a few) can survive without using the GBP then why would Scotland struggle?

Finally, if the rest of the UK decided to be dicks about us leaving then we've a really, really big ace in the hole. We simply stop access to our water. Considering 90% of the UKs fresh water supply is in Scotland, you'd be well and truly fucked if we turned the taps off.[/quote]
I agree you didn’t mention EU, but it’s usually the main point in the Scottish independence argument these days.

I don’t know the source of the figures you quoted, but I don’t doubt the validity of your general argument at all.

My point is only that it’s a two way street- whether UK v/s Scotland or UK v/s EU.

For example, England is by far the biggest market for Scotland, as it is for Northern Ireland and Wales. Some 60%-plus of Scottish exports go to the rest of the UK. Source :

There is no guarantee that Scotland would be allowed to keep Sterling particularly if it wishes to join the EU. Either, the currency will have to be recalibrated based on the new independent country’s economic strength , GDP, per capita etc. And therein lies the problem- if Scotland were to continue using sterling, or indeed any other currency, it would leave the country’s economy vulnerable to the power of the money markets.

There are certainly very good arguments in favour of Scottish independence, but equally as many that would caution against it. In the end, it’s whatever the majority decides. Whether it will truly solve Scotland’s problems or creates more remains to be seen.

@Itsnotallaboutyoubaby

I don’t think we are fucked… not quite yet anyway but it’s a shit time

This.

@Evesgarden - you do like to go on, don't you? We could find examples of things being worse, or being better in everything.

I merely responded to a poster who said "It's not just the UK it's everywhere" by saying that it isn't everywhere. Of course there are countries where much worse things are happening, but there are also countries which don't appear to be going through the same negatives that the UK is - and there have been several posters saying the same thing. Do you know what is happening in every single country in the world at the moment? Thought not.

I think we forget that our neighbours need us too, not just the other way around

Do they though?
I remember reading long threads about Brexit and many many posts saying that as soon as the UK left, Ireland would follow and France would follow Ireland and ridiculous ie never going to happen notions were trotted out over and over most convincingly and some people actually believed that the more they said it, the truer it became.
A few bothered to reply saying it would not happen and they were shot down with a certainty that was mind boggling to read by people living in the countries.
Ireland, in particular, was trampled on by the UK gov.
Import and customs duties mean Irish people are avoiding buying from online UK retailers. But who is this damaging? UK retailers or European retailers? Do France vineyards rely on UK buyers to buy their wine? Or do UK buyers depend on French vineyards? Do Europeans depend on M&S or are they satisfied that Lidl and Aldi and local producers will fulfil their requirements?
Does Spain depend on UK tourism or do UK holiday makers depend on travelling to the sun for their holidays?

The thought process of how much Europe needed the UK was skewed and from reading some posts on MN, this seems to be the case.

I'm a believer in Scottish independence so I applaud the pp (sorry not t o tag you!) But yes, things are going to hell. We can only look at what this means you and for us individually. I am really not a "me me" person but there is.going to come a time where it is make sure you and got a are ok. If other people's

Ireland, in particular, was trampled on by the UK gov.
Import and customs duties mean Irish people are avoiding buying from online UK retailers. But who is this damaging?

This.

I no longer use Amazon UK to buy presents for family in Ireland.

@Dancingonmoonlight

I think we forget that our neighbours need us too, not just the other way around

Do they though?
I remember reading long threads about Brexit and many many posts saying that as soon as the UK left, Ireland would follow and France would follow Ireland and ridiculous ie never going to happen notions were trotted out over and over most convincingly and some people actually believed that the more they said it, the truer it became.
A few bothered to reply saying it would not happen and they were shot down with a certainty that was mind boggling to read by people living in the countries.
Ireland, in particular, was trampled on by the UK gov.
Import and customs duties mean Irish people are avoiding buying from online UK retailers. But who is this damaging? UK retailers or European retailers? Do France vineyards rely on UK buyers to buy their wine? Or do UK buyers depend on French vineyards? Do Europeans depend on M&S or are they satisfied that Lidl and Aldi and local producers will fulfil their requirements?
Does Spain depend on UK tourism or do UK holiday makers depend on travelling to the sun for their holidays?

The thought process of how much Europe needed the UK was skewed and from reading some posts on MN, this seems to be the case.

I think this is one of those debates which can go on forever with no black and white, right or wrong clear cut conclusion.

There is no denying that UK depends on the EU. But they depend on us too- even if some argue that we need them more, it doesn’t mean they don’t need us at all.

To address some of your points- Spain relies on UK holidaymakers for tourism quite heavily, and their economy is very dependent on tourism. UK is a huge market for French wine, so if we stopped importing it, we’d certainly miss the wine but I’m sure they’ll miss our money. The import duties work both ways. I’m put off buying from EU retailers because I don’t want to pay import duties. This is definitely very annoying for me, but UK was a huge market for some of these retailers and I’m sure they feel the hit too.

Overall, it’s a mess. I wish Brexit had never happened and I wish covid had never happened and I want to go back to 2010.

Average age of death in the `uk is mid 40s? Wtf are you talking about about its in the 80s and that didn't even change for covid deaths. I dont know whether to grin or hmm at your response.

@Evesgarden, as she corrected a couple posts later, she was quoting the stats for the homeless population, not the whole population.

I have absolutely no idea if the stat is true, but she clarified immediately. I think the larger point is that for those without privilege in the UK, things are tough right now and getting tougher.

The UK is on a downward trajectory but we do have 1 feather in our cap- London. In the English speaking world, there aren't many cities that compare other than places like New York and the economies of Australia, New Zealand and Canada are too small to accomodate an equivalent financial hub..they tried to move a lot of bankers to Frankfurt and Amsterdam but it didn't completely succeed, most bankers just didn't want to move the children to completely different schools. English is an international language and it is most people's second language of choice. I still have friends from my home country (which is richer than the UK btw) moving to London.

In some ways, I think it will be like the 1970s where emigration of local Brits will be common but we will get more immigration from the commonwealth cos London still had better living standards than HK/Mumbai/Shanghai and also the jobs. But on the balance it will be an outflow but that wouldn't last forever so might be a good opportunity for those willing to stay in terms of jobs/property.

If just one supermarket wanted to compete as least shit all it would have to so is pay workers more. But no, as this country is built on relentless exploitation of the poorest.
And I voted remain before anyone jumps on me.

@DecadentlyDecisive

A good old Panic will help......

Not!

Exactly. I am worried about the state the country is in and hi don't really know where to start regarding a solution. But having seen people's reactions to lockdown and at the fuel station I run I worry more about how our society will cope if all they do is panic and treat each other poorly during this panic. Like you probably, got enough to worry about i dont want to deal with headless chickens on top of it!

@Itsnotallaboutyoubaby

I don’t think we are fucked… not quite yet anyway but it’s a shit time

Also agree with this.

@Eealoty

To anyone thinking other countries have it worse in Europe. There are indeed deeper issues at hand here in the UK. It's a rotten mentality we have. Have you visited an Eastern European country in recent years (I'm not even talking about Nordic). Romania, Poland? It was beautiful. Well kept little towns on cobbled streets with civilised restaurants.. filled with locals. No drunks falling around everywhere. NO homeless. No crass behaviour around. That was my experience of a visit - off the beaten track - in an "eastern bloc" country. However, . .. Keep believing the British exceptionalism is real. It's what everyone goes back to when the media leaves out any other narrative.

You realise those countries you listed also have homeless people, drunks and crass behaviour?? You just visited the nice parts of that country and it’s possible to just visit the nice parts of our country too!

@WhatwouldAnneFrankthinkofus

Nothing like a gloom and doom thread to cheer everyone up isn't it.No-one has to stay in uk you know, if it's not good then I am sure there are plenty flights out to greener pastures.

A lot of us do have to stay actually, if we are disabled and dependent on benefits.