About the level of fear over returning to the office?

[Hilyie]

We all currently WFH, our employer has said that this is the way forward, and we won't go back to working even weekly in the office - indeed we can't as our building has been partly sold off so there's only room for a limited number at any one time . The suggestion by our organisation is that within our teams and workgroups we try to attend the office 'a few times a year'. Apparently the ideal is once a month but there's no hard and fast rules.

As a department, we're currently trying to make arrangements to get people in the office a couple of times before the end of the year. But the level of anxiety is unbelievable.

Most people are vaccinated (personally I'm not, but the majority are), under 50, and with no underlying health conditions, not carers for those who are high risk etc. Very few have had Covid (that they know of)

Yet so far we've had some refusing outright to come in at all because they don't feel safe, others saying they would come to the office but refuse to use public transport as it's too dangerous, some saying they would come in if everyone had done a LFT beforehand (this is not required by our employer, though they are doing other checks) some saying they'll come in but want to sit 2m apart from anyone and if we get together for a meeting insist on everyone wearing masks or that we'll have to sit outside. Someone else wants to go home at lunch because 'its not safe to eat in the office' and so on. There are probably even more examples of what people won't do.

These people all worked side by side 18 months ago, ate lunch at their desks, chatted by the water cooler etc, all very normal. Yet now it feels like they're scared to leave the house.

Are we just unlucky or are other people this concerned? It feels like any semblance of our work environment will never return!

But even if people simply prefer wfh, (which in itself is entirely reasonable) surely they are getting their preference about 95% of the time if they need to go in less than once a month?

Teachers have been told by the government that it's safe to go into work

It's not because there's no safety measures, especially without masks in the classrooms, teachers are left to fend for themselves because it's considered unpalatable to not keep schools open.

so why do you think it's not safe in an office?

Depends on the office.

Zero sympathy to be honest. Are these the same people sunning themselves on furlough and then using the eat out to help out last August.

I don’t think a full return to office is necessary but Get back to the office for some keeping in touch says!

Days

@Fizbosshoes

But even if people simply prefer wfh, (which in itself is entirely reasonable) surely they are getting their preference about 95% of the time if they need to go in less than once a month?

Once a month would be great for me.

We were initially going back as a hybrid (2-3 days a week) now it's 5 days a week straight off the bat after 18 months at home.

@User135644

Teachers have been told by the government that it's safe to go into work

It's not because there's no safety measures, especially without masks in the classrooms, teachers are left to fend for themselves because it's considered unpalatable to not keep schools open.

so why do you think it's not safe in an office?

Depends on the office.

I was responding to a poster who said the government has hammered it into people that it's not safe in the office which is why they are scared. But the same government has hammered it in that it's safe in schools. So if you believe one, you believe the other.

Your colleagues are taking responsibility for their health and that of their families. They have not succumbed to the wishful thinking that permeates our society at the moment. They are waiting for the right time to return - that time is not now.

@DahliaGardener

Your colleagues are taking responsibility for their health and that of their families. They have not succumbed to the wishful thinking that permeates our society at the moment. They are waiting for the right time to return - that time is not now.

When will it be though? We aren't going to eradicate Covid, and every adult has been offered both vaccinations.

@lljkk

I would like to hear more from factory workers, food packers, security guards, supermarket staff, care home staff, kitchen staff, agricultural labourers, taxi drivers, builders, bus drivers, other "low skill" job holders... who have had a MUCH higher risk of covid harms than office workers (or teachers).

I think the low skill/ low pay sector were basically left to crack on with fuck all protections or risk assessment in the most concerning points in this pandemic. Some even had management who don't believe in covid ( or anxiety) - no fancy risk-adverse HR departments. It's a slightly bitter pill when healthy young people who earn silly money are weeping about returning to the office at this point in things.

@DahliaGardener

Your colleagues are taking responsibility for their health and that of their families. They have not succumbed to the wishful thinking that permeates our society at the moment. They are waiting for the right time to return - that time is not now.

If they want to choose not to return to the office, then perhaps they need to choose another job. There's never going to be a 100% safe time to return, and Ops workplace is doing more than most to mitigate risks and help manage the return to work.

@DahliaGardener

Your colleagues are taking responsibility for their health and that of their families. They have not succumbed to the wishful thinking that permeates our society at the moment. They are waiting for the right time to return - that time is not now.

So when will it be? News flash: contagious diseases have been around since time began. They're not going anywhere. Covid isn't going anywhere. I would say the majority of people crying about 'anxiety' in relation to returning to the workplace are just lazy and looking for excuses.

@sparklylightss

I think it’s ridiculous. I’m a teacher and I haven’t had a day wfh (I know some have) since I qualified last summer. Currently I have positive cases in my class and honestly… I haven’t actually given it a second thought. We have in person staff meetings, no masks in corridors, mixing of bubbles etc. It’s actually mental to me that people are kicking up a fuss about returning to work. It’s like a different world.

Yep. This. I find it so hard to believe people are that afraid. Surely they must just love working from home? I've had three face to face contacts this week with children with covid and the rest of the class are just in school as usual.

I'm swiftly turning into a covid denier: it's either a deadly contagion or it isn't.

Plus, anyone who has kids in school are already dipping into the most covid soaked pool of society atm so going into the office should be the least of their worries.

It's madness, surely there can't be that many people who are still terrified about covid.

They do realise that less than 2% of those who have had covid, have died?

I am afraid I have limited sympathy for office workers refusing to go into the office.
I am CV and work in a school. During the first lockdown, I worked from home as per the government guidance. Once the guidance changed, in June last year, I was expected back at work. I have been in work every day sine, apart from 5 days this summer when I had to isolate due to several children testing positive. Last year, when I and other school staff, including teachers, expressed concern about our return to work on here, we were told to either get on with it or quit. Now that we have the vaccine and everybody has had the opportunity to be vaccinated, I think there is less reason to insist on wfh.
And no, since March 2020 I have not been in any shops, have not been away on holiday, have not been out to a restaurant (have had one meal 'out' in a garden), not been to a pub etc. I will not be going to my work Christmas do as I am not prepared to put my family Christmas at risk. There are lots of things I have not done, partly to try to protect me an CV dh, but also so I don't put people like my elderly CV DM at risk. If your colleagues can honestly say they have actively avoided those kinds of situations, I have more sympathy with them. But otherwise, no, they need to be at work.

Well the government did a right job on them with project fear didn't they. I think it was the whole get jabbed it will be fine, but then saying you could still transmit the virus and catch it anyway. So totally pointless.

I'm not bothered now, I did go to a cafe and think wow lots of people, just because I don't do it often. I don't wear masks anywhere.

I have had full sympathy for those working on-site through the pandemic, I really do, but I think the level of social conditioning that occurred with office workers was quite different in terms of the message of Stay Indoors, it's not safe, do your bit for our plucky key workers by not going out or filling up buses, etc, work at home if you can. That was always going to take a long time to undo and tbh, we've never been told 'all's safe, you don't need to worry anymore', by the government nor by risk averse bosses.

Personally I couldn't stand working from home, which I did with an immense workload plus homeschooling through lockdowns and burnt out. I'm grateful that I have a job where I was away from the heat of the pandemic but equally it was mental imprisonment for me, and I'm back in the office full time through choice.

Yes working from home is far more convenient for some people, and yes some are still genuinely anxious, but we stand to lose a great deal in terms of diffuse social support and professional learning by continuing to work apart in the long term and I'm really hoping to see more colleagues in person, at least part of the time.

Quite honestly, if you’re working age, vaccinated, with no serious underlying conditions, you’re probably more at risk from serious outcomes crossing a road than from covid at this stage.

They do realise that less than 2% of those who have had covid, have died?

And that figure was a) strongly skewed towards older than working age to begin with b) much, much smaller among the vaccinated now

@BigSandyBalls2015

It's madness, surely there can't be that many people who are still terrified about covid.

They do realise that less than 2% of those who have had covid, have died?

Some people really still are. And some people are scared in an even broader sense now, where going out and mixing with people just feels like an incredibly risky and irresponsible thing to them. It’s worrying.

I have zero sympathy for office workers who are refusing to get their arses back to work. For too long people have sat at home and become used to putting a washing on/hanging washing out/working in lounge wear/walking the dog on breaks/doing the school run. A few at DH’s place of employment refused to return to the office - they were told to find a WFH position if they weren’t happy. They weren’t long in getting their arses back into their office when they were issued that ultimatum.

Those people not wanting to return to the office clearly haven’t given a thought to NHS workers, delivery drivers, cleaners, train or bus drivers, refuse collectors, post people, supermarket workers, teachers and many others who go into environments that are high risk while they sit in their little bubbles at home.

We need to get back to some sort of normal and living our lives, COVID isn’t going to go away, it’s long overdue that people need to learn to live with it.

If you really like WFH then fine, just own it. Formally request it as a permanent change, look for another job that’s all WFH. Don’t hide behind ‘anxiety’ if this is not in fact a problem for you, or insist that your work keep everybody WFH indefinitely For Safety Reasons so you don’t have to be open about what you want.

Wow thought we were past this now and people were back to work normally. OP I would say maybe start with meeting up outside if you can, maybe half a day with masks etc then build up to more normality. If people are still living like we are in lockdown then I can see that what you are asking is a massive step

I've been thinking about this .

I am one of the people who's been WFH the last 18 months and I love it. Mainly it's the lack of commute . More time relaxing in the evening as I can go to bed later knowing I don't need to get up til 8. And as soon as I finish I can go straight out in the garden . I feel so much more relaxed .

But. I don't think you are being unreasonable in expecting your staff to come in occasionally to keep in touch. Perhaps start off with one to one meetings or suggesting a couple of staff come in on a particular day each week as I can see going from sitting alone from home to 12 people squashed in a room is a big step.

We are encouraged that our offices are 'safe', we can go in if we chose, maybe for supervision meetings . I've not done so until now. As I say I just love not having to do the commute. But I think it is possible to get a bit lazy about things and I think I may start going in occasionally.

Very valid concerns about using public transport, and having space from others in the office. The former would have been solved if the legal obligation for face coverings had been kept (Mr Johnson to blame for that), the latter surely not too difficult to do?