AIBU for thinking hating people for their political leanings is perfectly normal?

[VelvetChairGirl]

I have been reading a brexit thread on here and lots of brexit voters in it seem horrified that they are hated and families have stopped talking to each other, and cut each other off over it.

but its politics nothing affects us more then politics, we have people who cut off others for believing in conspiracy theories and things. Brexit is the biggest shake up in this country in my life time, its taken away our freedom of movement for work and education, needlessly introduced a tonne of red tape, made our rights and standards extremely vulnerable to being destroyed (tories dont like food standards and workers rights this is well documented and they are in charge right now), reduced our standing in the world and will very likely lead us to being the poor man of Europe again, not to mention the fact its cut off vital EU funding to science research, regeneration and education projects up and down the county.

it affects everyone, of course people are perfectly entitled to hate those who voted to hurt them financially, prospects wise etc as much as they would hate someone who physically stole from them, theres very little difference is there?

@antoniawhite

Well let’s hope the grandparents are able to point to tangible benefits that Brexit has brought and then their grandson may feel less sore about it. Yes, it does cut both ways, but you need somebody to be getting something out of it. Maybe his grandparents are v wealthy and able to continue avoiding tax.

Or he could learn about democracy maybe, are people really of the expectation that others owe it to them to sit and justify their vote? There is still plenty of opportunities to study abroad from UK universities, and plenty of chances to work abroad; if he really wants to then as long as he chooses a degree of substance he still can do.

There are far fewer opportunities for poorer kids to go abroad. They now have to factor visas and medical insurance into their plans, which was not previously the case for EU countries. Loads of kids will be fine with this, as their parents will pay, but for some it’s the difference between going and not going.

I haven’t seen anyone say these kids are giving their grandparents grief or making them justify their votes. But they are aware of the impact it’s had on them and can’t not know that their grandparents contributed to this and so feel a bit differently towards them. That doesn’t seem very unreasonable. Nobody has the right to tell you how to vote, but your vote. speaks volumes about your values and priorities, so of course people will judge you. We all have that.

Could young people not apply to the Turing scheme? They could go further afield than just the EU then.

@antoniawhite
Do you make judgements on people’s religious beliefs which speak volumes about their values and priorities?

Medical insurance for young people is not expensive. And surely they can sort out visas? If you can't even sort a visa, are you really cut out for the challenges facing you living abroad?

Yes, they can apply for Turing this year, but it is much less well funded. Also nobody knows what will happen after one year. Erasmus was actually a global sceme also facilitating travel between over 100 countries.

I suppose I probably do make judgements about religion. If someone tells me they don’t allow their kids to have blood transfusions, then I would feel they are misguided. I’m a practicing Christian and used to getting a lot of judgement for that, some of which pisses me off because I think it’s ill informed. I get judged also for being a libtard do-gooder because of my political views and because I read the Guardian. We all get judged by somebody.

So people who make judgements on your values and priorities are ill informed but your judgements on others are reasonable?
Interesting

Medical insurance is not expensive for young people with no pre-existing conditions. A great many students don’t fit into those categories and if you do have pre existing conditions then it can be really hard. It’s not easy trying to handle medical insurance with cystic fibrosis or a previous cancer diagnosis.
Sorting out year abroad visas this year has been a nightmare (my job is linked to this). It will probably get easier, but it is yet another factor/ obstacle.

@AllTheUsernamesAreAlreadyTaken

So people who make judgements on your values and priorities are ill informed but your judgements on others are reasonable? Interesting

I didn’t say either of those things. I said I think they are ill informed,: I’m not saying I’m right. Nor did I say my judgements on others are reasonable. Your determination to twist what I am saying suggests that you’re really just spoiling for a fight.

I’m twisting it for a fight. I’m reflecting on what you’re saying.

@AllTheUsernamesAreAlreadyTaken

I’m twisting it for a fight. I’m reflecting on what you’re saying.

I’m not twisting it*

My boys know a lad whose burning ambition since he was about 10 has been to study/apprentice/work/everything in the European Space Agency.

It fuels his hobbies, his studying, his fitness...The kid is driven.

Brexit has screwed him over. All the entry programmes etc are for EU citizens.

How his grandparents could know all this and vote for Brexit I can't imagine.

But he takes it very personally.

Because it iIS personal when people vote for policies that will hurt other people.

Especially people they're supposed to love.

Let’s be very clear that the UK hasn’t left the ESA and that you are talking shite.

What I said was that I think some of the attacks I get for being a Christian are ill informed and nowhere did I say my judgements on others are reasonable. That is not the same as your construction.

@antoniawhite

What I said was that I think some of the attacks I get for being a Christian are ill informed and nowhere did I say my judgements on others are reasonable. That is not the same as your construction.

I disagree. You’re saying people taking a small snap shot of you (your religion) gives an ill informed judgment of who you are as a person and what you value. However, you think this is reasonable when people do this with a referendum such as Brexit, despite not knowing every single person’s personal experience and situation which may have lead to their decision. Yet, you expect those who voted leave to carefully consider the experiences and situation of those who wish to remain.

@Shade17

My boys know a lad whose burning ambition since he was about 10 has been to study/apprentice/work/everything in the European Space Agency.

It fuels his hobbies, his studying, his fitness...The kid is driven.

Brexit has screwed him over. All the entry programmes etc are for EU citizens.

How his grandparents could know all this and vote for Brexit I can't imagine.

But he takes it very personally.

Because it iIS personal when people vote for policies that will hurt other people.

Especially people they're supposed to love.

Let’s be very clear that the UK hasn’t left the ESA and that you are talking shite.

I've probably used the wrong agency name that's nothing to do with the EU and Galileo, Copernicus, EUSST and all that.

I'm talking about whatever EU space programme that the U.K. has left.

Because of Brexit.

It's not something I know much about.

I just hear about it from the boys.

No, I didn’t. You’re still doing it, FFS. I am saying that some of the things people have levelled at me for being a Christian are ill-informed, in my view, not that they have an ill informed view of me as a person and what I value. I’ve said no such thing.
And what I said was that what we are all subject to being judged for the values that our political choices reveal. It’s not just Remainers judging Leavers , it’s everyone. But yes, that does mean that the grandkids in question may look at their grandparents a little differently. They’ve seen a side they might not like. My Dad doesn’t like the side of me that votes Lib Dem because he thinks it’s naive. As it happens in my view there appear to be very few tangible benefits to Brexit; if there were then the grandkids might be more mollified. I’m not going to keep coming back to clarify what I did actually say. It’s getting fucking wearing.

But doesn’t this go both ways?
Why hasn’t he considered their reasons for voting how they did? Why does his opinion and experience matter more than theirs?

@AllTheUsernamesAreAlreadyTaken

It's not just a difference of opinion is it?

They voted to destroy their beloved grandchild's dreams by removing his access to the EU space programme.

What reason for voting for Brexit would justify that?

It doesn't go both ways because he hasn't done anything like that to them.

It just seems like this argument is very much one way. Only one side has to consider the other. Only one side has to justify themselves. Only one side’s personal situation matters.
It’s really sad.

I think you're being unreasonable for hating people because you don't agree with their views.

My mother was personality disordered (narcissistic and borderline PD) and I noticed one of the things that differentiated her from mentally healthy people, was that she couldn't abide people who disagreed with her views. They were bad, evil people to her, who were unredeemable.

Hating someone for their political views reminds me of that. To me, it's toxic and reminiscent of a personality disorder.

The exception would be the Nazis and what they did. It would be fine to despise their worldview. But the government and Brexit voters are not engaging in genocide.

@BIoodyStupidJohnson

YABU. Hating people for their political views isn't normal, it's extreme and the sign of an immature mind.

There used to be this idea of 'light, not heat'. That's why Nick Griffin was asked onto Question Time in 2009. Rather than attacking the position, expose it to rigorous interrogation and the whole thing falls apart. His standing never recovered and the BNP's vote share dwindled.

Now what seems to happen is that people are corralled into their little 'they-all-think-exactly-like-me' castles by Facebook or Twitter algorithms and end up just vomiting thoughtless, soundbite-laden loathing at each other over the parapets.

It's neither productive, healthy nor useful. It's producing a society of bellowing fools who seem to only be comfortable when surrounded by people who think exactly the same way.

Exactly right. I often cite the Nick Griffin on QT example as to why we must continue to talk to people with unpalatable views. It worked - he could not sustain his argument under reasonable questioning.

I could not agree more about the echo chambers of social media. It is healthy to be exposed to other views and even better to be challenged in a constructive and thoughtful way.

Bellowing fools - spot on!

@AllTheUsernamesAreAlreadyTaken

It just seems like this argument is very much one way. Only one side has to consider the other. Only one side has to justify themselves. Only one side’s personal situation matters. It’s really sad.

Feel free to lay out the other side of the argument.

@PrincessNutNuts
It’s not my argument to lay out but I’m not going to assume there isn’t one just because I don’t agree with it.

In my previous jobs I’ve met parents whose children were the only English speakers in their class.
I’ve met builders who are struggling to make ends meet because they can’t compete with the low prices EU builders can offer because of the difference in their living costs.
These are just a few examples of people who I understand why they feel their personal situation has been been made worse by membership of the EU.

I listen. I might not agree but I see why they felt stuck and like Brexit was their only chance to change their situation.

Doesn't it depend a bit what these views are:

'I think Conservatives are better for the country than Labour'
(disagree but wouldn't hate anyone for it)

versus

'I think Hitler was right and should have killed more Jews and Gypsies!'
(would hate or at least avoid that person)

@ddl1

Doesn't it depend a bit what these views are:

'I think Conservatives are better for the country than Labour'
(disagree but wouldn't hate anyone for it)

versus

'I think Hitler was right and should have killed more Jews and Gypsies!'
(would hate or at least avoid that person)

You’re right.

Although if I met someone in real life that thought Hitler was right and should have killed more Jews and Gypsies, my first reaction would be shock and revulsion more than hatred.

It is on mumsnet

In my real life I just know who not to discuss stuff with if their opinion will annoy me and change the subject or avoid them . In most cases I can understand why their past experience leads them to where they are now with whatever views they have . Including the understanding that for many people, as they get older their lives get smaller.