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AIBU?

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Original poster

Would you be off sick if you weren't being paid?

284 replies

MakeMineALarge1 · 22/09/2021 10:11

I work for the NHS, the sick package is very good, full pay for 6 months then half pay for another 6.

I know that its very stressful at the moment in acute care, sickness in our department is currently at 30% with up to 6 members of staff off per shift.

Lots of people citing stress etc, needing time out, and this is granted on full pay.

If you were self employed or hourly paid, would as people still be off with stress and still need "time out"

It seems a lot of threads on here start with "my anxiety" or I have PTSD or I am depressed. Is it too easy nowadays to ring your GP and be signed off on this basis?

OP posts:
TheVoidStaresBack · 23/09/2021 19:00

A very close family member of mine died last week, I took 2 days off on annual leave to sit with them, and have taken 2 days annual leave for the funeral, I can’t afford to be off anymore as I only get SSP. I do a low paid yet responsible job where making a mistake could seriously impact someone’s health. Should I be at work? Probably not as my head isn’t where it should be. I have no other choice however.

OneStepOut · 23/09/2021 19:03

Well, yes. That's why we are on our knees with money now. But my husband is really not in the mental state to either work or be a sole carer of two autistic children so we are both out of work (except my irregular temp jobs).

Mickarooni · 23/09/2021 19:16

@Monster2021

My old employer didn't pay sick for the first 3 days. It weedled out the piss takers.
Mine is the same. It penalises those who have genuine health conditions or are ill. It also encourages people to come in and spread their germs.
StargazerAli · 23/09/2021 19:17

Bloody hell. No wonder the NHS is in such a mess.

peppermintpat · 23/09/2021 19:25

I don't get sick pay from my employer so would have to be really ill to not go in. I can't afford not to.

waitingpatientlyforspring · 23/09/2021 19:27

I know for sure from speaking to people who move from private sector and no sick pay and public sector and full pay suddenly take a lot more sick days.

We had a group of staff who were paid partly contracted (so paid if sick) and partly via over time (not paid on sick). This group of staff were rarely off ill. As soon as we increased contracted hours the sick record of at least half the team became incredibly poor.

doadeer · 23/09/2021 19:27

I don't get sick pay as I freelance. I have chronic pain and hardly ever take time off. I have to really be in a bad way.

threatmatrix · 23/09/2021 19:35

Put it this way, people that own their own business never go sick.

PinkFootstool · 23/09/2021 20:31

@threatmatrix bullshit. I know plenty of business owners and SE people who have had to go sick at times. Broken bones, vomiting, diarrhoea, migraines, you name it - not everything can be worked through.

deleteasappropriate · 23/09/2021 20:38

In our small business we've never paid sick pay, and have had minimal time off from staff. However over the last year we've had staff members off with serious illnesses and my OH has chosen to keep paying them partial wages each week due to the nature of their illnesses. My daughter is now an employer (much bigger than we are) and has done the same - result is minimal time off, and her staff can make up their hours when they are better if they need to take time off.

threatmatrix · 23/09/2021 20:39

It wasn’t meant to be taken ‘literally’ but more often than not if we can still walk we go to work. There was no need to lower the tone with your unclassy swearing.

simiisme · 23/09/2021 20:46

I'm paid if I'm off sick, I'm a teacher. I am grateful for that. I never throw sickies and have only had 2.5 days off in more than 2 years.

cookie4640 · 23/09/2021 20:46

I’m self employed. I would definitely take time off work if I was sick. As it stands I have to be at deaths door / have something contagious for me to take time off work. It’s the ONLY reason I’ve been doubled jabbed so that I don’t have to isolate if the kids bring covid into the household from school.

disconnected101 · 23/09/2021 21:00

Private sector + minimum wage + ssp for 20 years. In that time I was off four times - twice for a fracture, which I got ssp for, and twice when I had flu, when I either rearranged my shifts or just didn't get paid. If I wasn't there - I didn't get paid. That's why I went to work any other time I wasn't well, not because I'm a martyr.
The civil servants who frequented my places of work though could take time off sick knowing they would still get paid, whether it was genuine or not - & according to them a lot of the time it was not!

AlexaShutUp · 23/09/2021 21:18

I have worked in organisations with exceptionally good sick pay and in organisations which only pay SSP. Undoubtedly, people take much more sick leave when they know that they will be fully paid for it.

I think there are multiple reasons for this. Of course, there are some people who just take the piss and have time off when they really don't need it. Then there are others who are borderline - not 100% but not that unwell either, much more likely to take time off if they are on full pay. Then there are those who are really far too unwell to be in work but force themselves in anyway - sometimes putting others at risk - because they simply can't afford to take time out on SSP only. SSP is nowhere near enough to live on, so I don't think that the solution for organisations is to reduce to SSP.

Good absence management procedures, implemented sensibly, can certainly help to reduce the piss taking behaviour. Effective stress management policies can also make a huge difference. If people feel well supported at work and have manageable workloads, they are much less likely to take time off if they don't actually need it.

I do think it's very easy to get signed off for mental health issues if you are that way inclined, and that isn't helpful for those who are genuinely too unwell to work, because it trivialises conditions that are sometimes genuinely debilitating. I don't know what the solution is, though, and I understand why GPs sign people off as readily as they do.

MilduraS · 23/09/2021 21:21

I work with someone who has been in the job for several years, much longer than me. In my 4 years in the role she has been off for 3-4 months per year due to stress and I've heard she had been signed off for longer periods several times before I joined. We're on higher than average salaries for an administrative role and have a very generous LGPS pension scheme in addition to good sick pay so there's no incentive for her to leave. I don't think she'd still be here if it weren't for the generous sick pay and benefits. It's clear from the number of times she's been signed off long-term that the job role isn't appropriate for her. Don't get me wrong, it is a stressful role but I accept that in exchange for the higher salary.

SaddenedByItAll · 23/09/2021 21:25

@NoEffingWay

I'm on the NHS bank, when I don't work I don't get paid. Injured myself and had to cancel work and will have to suffer for it. When the choice is made for you financially you are much more likely to go to work! The trust I work for treats bank staff like we are dim and unreliable but in reality the wards would close without us, in large part due to substantive staff sickness.
Are you sure? BUPA and SPIRE bank get sick pay
Awalkintime · 23/09/2021 21:26

I don't go off sick even though I get full pay. I have to work if I'm off sick anyway so there is no point being off.

Scottsy100 · 23/09/2021 22:09

She might not have anything to do with mental health issues

She’s not wrong I’m all she’s saying is it’s a lot more out in the open and everyone has got one thing or another, i personally think the word anxiety gets thrown around these days without a thought 🤷🏼‍♀️

SunscreenCentral · 23/09/2021 22:17

@PermanentTemporary

One of the big factors in Covid spread/death rates was that nursing homes that didn't have sick pay had hugely increased numbers of deaths.
100%
delilahbucket · 23/09/2021 22:20

I've been self employed as my only income for nearly seven years. I've not had a single day off sick. Granted I don't tend to get poorly, and if DS had any kind of stomach bug I was bleaching to within an inch of my life so I didn't catch it (never have). Even if DS was off school poorly, I was still working from home while looking after him.
When I was pregnant there were a lot of times I shouldn't have been in work. Gastric flu, food poisoning, severe PGP. I would have only received SSP after three days off and DS's dad was too bone idle to get a job so I had to be there. I crippled myself in the process and I'm still paying the price 13 years later.

CharleyMarley · 23/09/2021 22:20

@PermanentTemporary

One of the big factors in Covid spread/death rates was that nursing homes that didn't have sick pay had hugely increased numbers of deaths.
hugely increased number of deaths...? Or staff or residents?
AngelDelight28 · 23/09/2021 22:39

I can't speak for anyone else, but when I was at the doctor to get a physical issue checked out, he asked about my lifestyle and decided that my issue was down to stress/anxiety (demanding job, busy life in general). He asked me whether I wanted to be signed off sick from work. I declined as I didn't think it was necessary, but if I'd wanted to I could have had time off; just like that. Later I went for a second opinion and was told my issue was unlikely to be due to stress.
I also worked with a man who was signed off for 3 months for stress after he had a falling out with the boss, because the boss pulled him up on not doing much work...he was a notorious skiver.
It seems like doctors rely on self reporting of symptoms...there's no real way for them to prove that someone really is stressed/depressed/anxious to the point that they can't work. So it's open to abuse, which then makes it hard for people genuinely struggling to be taken seriously.

blackheartsgirl · 23/09/2021 22:52

I have depression, ptsd and anxiety

My husband died 2.5 months ago after a very short out of the blue battle with cancer.

I've been off for 3 months, I worked for the NHS and have since left. I'm bloody glad that I got paid sick pay because without it my family would have been screwed.

cansu · 23/09/2021 22:57

You could argue that better working conditions, flexibility and kinder behaviour in the workplace would lead to less MH issues caused by stress and bullying at work.