To think that Insulate Britain are an absolute menace…

[Flawedperfection]

Just that really. Currently listening to LBC radio.
And they should be held to account for the death of the woman last week who couldn’t reach an hospital for 6 hours, following what would normally have been a much shorter journey. An oncologist also couldn’t get to work, where she was surely urgently needed.
I understand they have a message, but what if they do more help than good?
What do you think?

And Belle, climate chaos is hurting/killing and will hurt/kill far more innocent people than these protests.

If you are driving a tram and can go one of two ways - one kills one person, the other kills five - you chose the first right? Inaction means so much more harm and death. Everything has been tried to make governments take action, for decades. What other option is there?

When has it been tried? Are you referring to the green party?
The pàrty who abandoned their commitment to the environment in favour of removing women's sex based rights.

Yes what a good try that was. I wonder why no one votes for them.

All these movements are made up of the opportunists and the naive who do zero practical contributions money or skill wise to climate change. The people who are doing something are working with the government. Creating electric cars, lower emission fuel, vertical farming.
None of them are playing chicken for virtue signalling.

And did you know the single biggest thing an individual can do to climate change is eat a plant based diet.
Because if you are not doing that (and I am) it's all hot air. Words are wind and these protesters have so much coming out of their mouths I'm surprised it isn't pushing methane gases up.

en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Civil_disobedience

There is a long history to civil disobedience and it could be considered our moral duty.

Who said I support inaction. I don't. I, like most people, do my part. The general public support environmental solutions.

We're just not cool with disabling people and creating tons off emissions in the process.

Patronising twaddle. The only reason I can think for this thoughtless action is
A) too brain-dead to do something effective
B) lack the skills or motivation to positive contribution

There's a world history of hypocrisy and terrorist groups achieving their aims. The Taliban been giving you tips have they?

Belle we could get into a tit for tat in terms of what each of us is doing but I fear I would win that battle. We have been steadily changing our habits for years. But that’s not the point.

Whatever your views of the Green Party, it has been tried.

Yes there are people working with the government and good on them if they are genuinely making a difference, but this needs to be a world wide, legislated effort.

Just recently the Government have been umming and erring on whether to open a new coal mine.

The pursuit of money has to stop trumping climate chaos. We can’t eat money. We can’t cool ourselves with money. We can’t re-establish extinct species with money.

Until governments listen, I can see no alternative to civil disobedience and direct action. Everything has been tried already and we don’t have time to waste now. This is urgent. Innocent people, many of them, are already dying.

BelleOfTheProvince

The Taliban? Seriously? and breathe.

I’m off now. Nice talking.

@LoislovesStewie

I read somewhere that one of these idiots lives in a house that has single glazed windows and no insulation. So why hasn't he done something about that?

Beginning to think he just wants to force the government to pay for it so he doesn't have to. How much is this self interest dressed up as community concern?

You'd win that battle. You haven't even said whether you have adopted the single biggest lifestyle change for the environment.
So Mystic Meg says no you haven't.

The green party failed because they put other things in front of the environment. So no, they didn't try. If I start up a party for the environment and then highjack it with an unpopular lobby, say pro fox hunting, you can't really say I've had a good try, can you.

It's people like you that are accelerating the crisis, showcasing yourselves to being ineffective hypocrites. You are losing public support because you are sociopaths hell bent on destroying people's lives and livelihoods because you like the festival lifestyle.

All of it is self interest dressed up as concern. All of it.

@ArcheryAnnie

knittingaddict insulation works both ways - it can keep a room cool, eg by stopping the sun from heating it through the roof. Think of being in a car that's been sat out in the sun all day - a metal.box, little insulation. Then walk into a well-insulated, well-ventilated building and feel the difference. Its why you are advised to close the curtains on south-facing windows in an effort to keep your house cool.

Well it's obviously not working or they are putting in the "wrong" insulation because I have first hand experience of a new build which was almost unbearable in the summer. There have been tv news reports on it too.

Just recently the Government have been umming and erring on whether to open a new coal mine.

And I heard that debate on the radio. The coalmine would be primarily used in the production of steel. Steel, which is essential in the environmental solutions available to us.

This is the problem with you activists all problems. No solutions.

You think you are a big hero because you say no more, zero tolerance, stop now.

Yet you have no alternatives, no plans, nothing.
Absolute jokes.

And I don't see why you are so quick to accept the similarities with the suffragettes, which has been debunked already on this thread anyway, but balk at other extremist comparisons.

Bottom line is, you willingly hurt people for your cause.
And then have the gall to patronise people who call you out for it.

Belle, do you spend as much time on MN railing about the terrible deaths, injuries and environmental damage that the non-essential use of cars causes, both directly and indirectly? And if not, why not?

No. Cars are an essential for the majority of people outside London.
And yes, if motorists were deliberately ramming pedestrians to make a point, then maybe you'd have a point. But they don't do they.
That protest was not essential.
The world will continue to find eco solutions without your virtue signalling.

Well, if they are essential, then does that mean that the recklessness of too many people who drive them, or the lung damage of children growing up near main roads, or the environmental damage which affects us all, is just fine?

You seem to be saying that because a lot of people think (erroneously or not) that cars are absolutely necessary, then the collateral damage, because it wasn't the primary purpose of driving the cars, doesn't matter.

Well, whether we personally agree with the style of protests or not, it's very clear that the protesters think (erroneously or not) the protests are absolutely necessary, and the collateral damage, because it wasn't the primary purpose of the protests - well, does that matter, or not?

If you can think intent matters, and personal assessment of "essential" matters, then so can they.

Whilst I don't necessarily agree with how they doing it, i do think good for them for having the balls and tenacity to try and get change. This country is so passive these days we'll be living under a dictatorship before we know it.

BelleOfTheProvince

Mystic Meg is wrong.

@ArcheryAnnie

A doctor that smokes, that tells you to give up because it’s going to kill you, is still right

You've absolutely nailed it.

Missing the point massively.

The smokers are largely based in China and US. The ‘doctor’ is telling us to hold our breath and stop breathing so we don’t passively smoke. The ‘doctor’ is stupid and should not be let loose to tell anyone anything.

@Lostmarbles2021

Belle we could get into a tit for tat in terms of what each of us is doing but I fear I would win that battle. We have been steadily changing our habits for years. But that’s not the point.

Whatever your views of the Green Party, it has been tried.

Yes there are people working with the government and good on them if they are genuinely making a difference, but this needs to be a world wide, legislated effort.

Just recently the Government have been umming and erring on whether to open a new coal mine.

The pursuit of money has to stop trumping climate chaos. We can’t eat money. We can’t cool ourselves with money. We can’t re-establish extinct species with money.

Until governments listen, I can see no alternative to civil disobedience and direct action. Everything has been tried already and we don’t have time to waste now. This is urgent. Innocent people, many of them, are already dying.

What is your point? It’s all just abstract statements. What difference do these virtuous statements make if China and US are not on board. It’s just white noise, or it was until people started to be harmed by environmental extremists.

Obviously this needs to be a global effort but it’s no use sticking as we are and pointing the finger at countries with worse emissions. We only have control over our own actions, individually and as a country. We can, and must, lead by example.

Belle, ok, you’ve sucked me into a tit for tat...we personally are plant based, don’t fly, drive electric etc. Etc. Everything we can do, we are doing. Not everyone can do all that we do and I don’t judge those who can’t. I don’t even judge those that can and don’t because that’s just being human. As a family, we are also constantly working towards doing more - eg solar panels. One of our core values is to reduce our carbon footprint so we strive to do that. We are most definitely not perfect though. But that’s not the point. The point is that decades of doing it ‘the right way’ have failed, so what choice is left?

I’m not personally an activist (it’s something I’m not able to do at the moment but would if I was retired and DC grown up) but I am now (didn’t use to be in terms of climate change) pro direct action and civil disobedience, because, time has run out and we have no choice but to change. Until there is legislation and government action people will keep doing what they do. We can’t rely on individual change.

Lots of people refused to use energy saving light bulbs until they were legislated against. Just one example. Lots of people are queuing up to get back to their holidays abroad. People are still buying unnecessary SUVs. People are still eating factory farmed foods. People are still buying unnecessary clothes. Etc etc etc. And of course they are. Why would people change? Why would people voluntarily give up their creature comforts and lovely holidays. It’s bloody hard. I ache to go and lie on a beach somewhere hot. I’d love to see the parts of the world that excite me. It’s only because I speak regularly to people that know a lot more about climate change than I do that I’ve changed these behaviours and made difficult sacrifices.

The science is telling us, beyond doubt, that our current ways are creating climate change, which is already killing people and is worse even than predicted.

Inaction is not an option. Individual change is not enough. Governments need to legislate and build it in to policies that are likely to be unpopular. They haven’t. Not even in the face of incontrovertible evidence and public pressure. What campsigners have been doing hasn’t changed this. Everything else has been tried over decades.

So I ask again. What else can people do? ... What else can people do?

The choice now is - civil disobedience (everything else has been tried for decades, the government and current laws don’t protect us and don’t care for us as is needed and they are unjust - so this is now reasonable action to take) or nothing.

I fully support those that are choosing to do something. It’s a moral necessity now sadly.

Ok let's say the spirit of eco future visits Boris Johnson in a dream.
He vows to commit to zero emissions by tomorrow.
Bans cars. Pulls planes. Bans meat. Bans uninsulated houses.
What then? Do any of these lobby groups have a plan. An infrastructure?
No. They have nothing.
See the cole mines above. They need steel for our eco alternative. They're calling for changes to be made but have no alternative.
That's busy work for someone else to do. Grunt work is far too important for these ideological protesters.

As an above poster says, there's no substance to anything they demand or advocate for.

Lostmarbles2021

So tell me why if Insulate Britain and XR are so worried about climate change do all their protests involve making things worse.

Why do their protests seem to always add to the problem of climate change rather than help it.

I don't judge anyone for the choices they make- until they endanger people's lives with their hypocrisy.
Nice to know you are committing to the lifestyle, however, in my mind this just puts you in the naive rather than self serving catagory. We have solar panels by the way and they do come with their own environmental problems by the way. Hopefully the technology is improving. This will be down to people working on them in the industry though and not idiots super glueing themselves to lorries.
I've suggested several times what could be done. Personally I would be thrilled to vote for a party that centres the environment. Yet if I'm asked to give up women's safety and dignity to do so it's a hard no from me. If the greens had stuck to their remit they wouldn't be haemorrhaging their traditional voters like me. It's really not that hard.

Or funding alternatives. Again, something people could do.

Dress it up all you want but it's terrorist tactics. Fine if you want to support it, but don't be fooled. It's not the moral high ground you think it is.

@Bythemillpond

Lostmarbles2021

So tell me why if Insulate Britain and XR are so worried about climate change do all their protests involve making things worse.

Why do their protests seem to always add to the problem of climate change rather than help it.

Oh I got this one

It is spool bad you plebs don't understand. The environmental damage of stopping the motorway traffic is a drop in the ocean if we don't act now. No we don't know what needs to be done. That's for someone else to work out. But something needs to be done. Just not by me. And yesterday is not soon enough. No, we know people are working on the solutions, but it's not soon enough so everything we do is justified and not wankerish. Sigh. Holds children.

@Lostmarbles2021

You use a lot of words and I am sure you mean well, but what’s your point? This do something rhetoric means what exactly? We could get to 0 emissions, it still wouldn’t change anything, we account for less than 1% of global emissions.