to think there is an inverse relationship between how little money people have and how much they are willing to spend on presents for their children

[Twiglett]

am truly gobsmacked at some of the things that people I know are buying for their children

truly and utterly, spoilt bastard, gobsmacked

why spend that much money? why?

I have experience of both sides of the coin (get it?) and I don't think the inverse relationship thingy holds true. I know people with v. little dosh who buy lovely gifts from charity shops and I also know very well-off people who go mental - I remember one pal buying her 5-year old son a hand-held PS-thingy when they came out because "all his friends were getting them" 5!!!!!! I think it depends on the people and their values and how they relate to their kids - which generally doesn't depend on how much money they have. I agree that the best presents aren't always the flash fashionable gizmos and kids get a lot out of simple creative stuff. The dreaded "peer pressure" hasn't been mentioned yet. My DD is too young to succumb yet, but how do you handle it?
Merry Christmas everyone x

I agree with JeremyVile. It comes down to feelings.
MMy friend on beenfits, hr dp left her and he son. She admits that she feels so guilty about this , that her ds wants for nothing.
You can't move in her house and she has spent £100's over the last few months - I did an order from Studio for her of £99.
This year ds has three presnets - including some Buzz lightyear underpants costing £2.50 - beleive me, he will be ecstatic.
Mind you, generally he wants for little, so why go OTT at Chrssitmas ?

Yesterday, I expressed surprise that a friend has bought her 11 year old daughter a Wii, when she already has a PS3 and a DS, a TV in her room, a computer in her room. My friend often complains that her daughter spends too much time gazing at a screen of one sort or another - what is that all about? I told my friend I was going to report her to Childline and she told me that she is going to tell my children that my christmas present budget for all of them is much less than my quarterly highlights bill. Fair cop.

my Dp and I have tight purse strings and I told DP's mom in the SUMMER that I wasn't going to buy every last member of his extended family a pressie this year, not even a token one because we have a baby on the way and bills to pay.
She could not accept it so she went out with her pension and bought pressies for half of his rediculously sized family, gave them to me (last week) and instucted me that I had to wrap them and dole them out as if from me and in addition I had to find the money to buy pressies for the rest of them because they'd know who had and who hadn't had a gift! These are not children they're ALL grown ups, surely grown ups can accept a card accompanied by a couple of homemade gingerbread men from a couple who live on a tight budget with a baby coming in february! I don't understand what the big deal is, it's only bloody christmas. I mean sure it's a magical time of year and all that but it's supposed to be a religious festival i.e going to church and thanking God for our saviour etc, if that's your cup of tea! Pressies and trees and big expensive dinners aren't even supposed to figure into it!
People out there buy xmas gifts for folk they wouldn't buy a birthday gift for, what the devil are they thinking?

DH and I have very good incomes and are financially comfortable.

I spent £3.50 on gifts (discounted books) for each of my DTS (3yo). DH said that I was mean so went out and bought them both a bike for £30 each.

I know that my DTS would have loved just receiving their £3.50 gift because of the process of receiving a wrapped gift, ripping the paper off and making a discovery.

My DH wanted to spend more because he wanted them to have a proper gift but I personally think it more to satisfy his needs than those of our DTS. However, I know that they will love their new bikes so maybe I was being too parsimonious.

Similarly for those parents who spend more than they have or those who are shamelessly profligate. It is more about satisfying their needs or bolstering their egos.

I would not think so.

I mean, look at the presents the Beckham boys get!

We always got one main present, which was always priced within reason, and a few extras.

But my dad's a bit on the frugal side, having grown up quite impoverished.

I do not see the wisdom of buying children extremely expensive things, simply because for the most part they are not well aware of the value of the pound and prone to lose or break many items.

But then again, people are entitled to spend their money as they chose to a degree.

I spend plenty on my children at Christmas and would probably be judged by lots of posters on here. I do so because we can easily afford to and because they enjoy it. And you know what? They are not spoilt brats, they appreciate everything enormously, they are grateful. They don't ask for much, I just choose things I know they will love. Ds will be getting a Wii which I bought before there was any shortage and he will be over the moon. And if other families want to do the same even if they get into debt then good luck to them.

Hi PK616 - the cheek! I hope you refused and advised her to take them back for a refund. Unfortunately old ladies can be a bit funny - but she has no right to make you feel bad. Christmas is about togetherness and not about presents. Congratulations on the expected baby - how lovely! x

Tamum's children are anything but spoilt, that's for sure!

But really, do people honestly keep track of what others spend on their children?

I don't even know what a Wii or those other Nintendo things cost, in addition to not really caring, or what most toys cost except for those my elder daughter specifically asks for.

I suppose I'd be more in touch with that as the girls get older.

But really, people keep track of this in others?

How bizarre.

Aw, thanks expat xx

I agree with Tamum. We're spending quite a bit. A DS for ds2 (bought in Nov for a decent price). DS1 is getting a weighted blanket- which is costing £100 because that's how much they cost- am considering whether we can afford a basic electronic message system for him (£50) as I'd like to know how well he would respond to those. He also has a £30 dolls house on its way. For ds3 not a great deal yet, one of those cardboard rockets from paperpod & will pick up some trains etc as well.

We are broke (as we always are) but this won't leave us destitute. And I like to get the children something they reall want. DS1 needs the blasted blanket anyway I'm hoping it will save the rest of us some bruises.

I wasn't trying to patronise council estate people. I can't win, because I knew if I said nothing about where I was coming from people might assume I had never even set foot on one, hence the caveat about having worked on some. I was just trying to indicate how the stereotype might have some basis in reality. People make jokes about the council houses all having satellite dishes and having the best TVs, etc, which is of course exaggerated, but there is some evidence for this.

I suppose it's all about spending priorities. After all, the middle-classes are all snapping up their horse-riding lessons and ballet classes with equal fervour...

Being able to fork out £50 a month on Sky, and a several hundred quid on a tv is really not the same as affording the monthly outgoing a mortgage brings.

Folk living in council accommodation arent disqualified from having these "luxuries". I'm not entirely sure what is so notable about council tenants owning or affording such items? Are they supposed to dress in sackcloth and live on bread and water in order to demonstrate that they qualify for State assistance or something?

If you think that parents shouldnt smother their children in gifts at Christmas time particularly if the child has no concept of value - that's entirely understandable. What bothers me is that class, status and affordability is brought into it.

mylovely - Thank you for the congrats, We are really excited as we've wanted this child for a long time.
No I didn't tell her to take them back, although my mom nearly did for me, she was fuming! I nodded and took the gifts and on my way home I went into LIDL and bought a few tins of bargain chocs. When I got home I opened all the gifts from DP's mom that were sweets/chocs and mixed and matched with the chocs I'd bought and made little sweetie parcels out of tissue paper tied with gift ribbon. The non confectionary gifts were reassigned to more appropriate recipricants and I did the ENTIRE family (my lot included) for under a tenner!
It's tight, I know, and I did spend so little mainly to make a point, but I'm not putting us into debt or going without gas for ANYBODY's christmas pressie!
She doesn't know what I've done yet, but she will find out on the day! Maybe next year she'll either buy all the pressies she wants her dear son to give at xmas or she'll have the grace to let us do what we can afford!

PK - MIL should find some grace - you seem to have plenty. Your mum sounds great - I bet she was ready to deck her......good old mum! Chortle

I suppose the council estate aspect skews the argument somewhat away from what people were discussing and into hotly-disputed areas of class.

But it does bring it back to Twiglett's OP's point, which was about the inverse relationship between what you have and what you spend.

Maybe there is some truth in what someone said above - that Christmas doesn't need to be such a big deal for some people if their children don't normally go without.

Or does it work the other way round? If they have a lot, they expect a lot and vice-versa?

(I still don't quite understand why it is that double-income homeowners struggle to afford things that people on benefits seem to be able to have, but I've had it "explained" to me a hundred times and I still don't. I must just be a bit dim.)

I'm with Unquietdad. Dim, I am. I just don't get it.

I think it depends where you lay your priorities UQD.
We have a nice house and a nice car, but we go out once in a blue moon and spend hardly anything then, we don't smoke, we rarely buy new clothes and if there is something we want we wait til we can get a good deal on it on ebay or the such like. (DP wanted a PS3, he watched them on ebay for weeks before getting one plus a game and extra controller for about £200)

One couple I know earn more than we do, (I'm a SAHM with an income of zilch to add to DP's wage, but they both work full-time) they are always skint however she spends £50 a pop on cocaine everytime she goes out along with the normal going out price, plus has to have a new outfit and goes out about once a week, he goes out about once a month and spends hundreds at the casino and on lapdancers. She smokes, spending a good deal of her disposable income on cigarettes, and they have lunch most sundays in a pub cos she is usually hungover and can't be bothered to cook.

So although we earn less than them, we spend less too, leaving us with more iyswim.

Mylovely - my mom would have if I'd of let her! bless her cottons!

Casinos, lapdancers, cocaine and new outfits?! Blimey. Must tell DW. We tend to think we are pushing the boat out if we go to a restaurant which does its own wine rather than a bring-your-own place. I'm starting to feel I lead a sheltered life.

Ah, well double income homeowners who struggle are quite often these days, folks who stretched themselves to the limit just to get on the housing ladder. Their mortgages are extortionate - along with the insurance they are required to have to go with it. They dont get relief from council tax or rent. They dont get free prescriptions, Travel, School dinners, childcare etc.

That would be known in English as a "licensed restaurant", of course. DOH! Must stop re-inventing the wheel....

Or they splash it in nightclubs, cocaine and clothes

I love how VS's mates go out for Sunday lunch because she can't be bothered to cook
Is it beyond him to stick a chicken in the oven??

I love going mad at xmas because I am a meanie the rest of the year. Easy, very easy to spend not much on little ones especially if you have a big family so they'll get other stuff elsewhere. But for older kids it's more difficult unless you are making a conscious decision that they will NOT have ANY elctronic stuff - DSs, mp3 players etc. Fair enough if you don't want to go down that route but I think getting one gift like that each year isn't too over the top and it will almost certianly bring a little smile on xmas morning