To think the royal family are a bloody embarrassment THREAD 2

[MyOhMySimon]

Carrying on from Thread 1.
www.mumsnet.com/Talk/am_i_being_unreasonable/4347032-To-think-the-royal-family-are-a-bloody-embarrassment?msgid=110733144#110733144

Haven't seen the OP around, thread 1 is about to run out and someone asked for a new thread.

@HarrisonStickle

It wouldn't need to be a majority, just the most votes. And that could be pretty few if a number of them decided to stand for election.

I don't think it would run into Grand National numbers more likely just a few runners and riders.

It would certainly do away with the whole heir and spare which seems to cause a lot of angst. Everyone in the immediate family, if they want the role has an equal chance (so long as they keep their powder dry) and us plebs have the final say.

Talking of heir and a spare, I think it should be law that anyone in the direct line of succession has to have at least three children. Joking aside, I think Harry has suffered from being the only 'spare'. I think things would've been easier for him mentally had he had another sibling around who wasn't on course to be monarch.

Yes, and I think the same could be said for Margaret too.

I don’t think that they’re as embarrassing as the media that report on them, for instance one of these day time shows today had a reporter or some royal expert, she genuinely sat on live tv and called Andrew a worried father & grandfather and that it’s hard for his kids at this point, basically there was a whole bunch of sympathy for him and his poor kids 😂
AND then said it’s not been proved BUT ..... we must be careful because the same girl that’s accusing Andrew is an actual victim of Epstein soooooo someone please make this make sense 😂 innocent till proven guilty for the Grand old nonce of York but not the billionaire than can’t defend himself?

We all can see clear as day how manipulative the media are but somehow it still manages to carry on, of course the Royals and super rich will always get away with all this while they’re protected.

@StormzyinaTCup When the first "elected royal" died, what would you do then? Carry on an X-Factor system where we just vote for anyone from the Windsors who can be arsed to turn up and perform?

She only started paying income tax and capital gains tax in 1993 after forty odd years of being monarch. She's also had a 'monarch to monarch' deal in place since then to not pay inheritance tax (which her mother also had despite not being the monarch)

@HarrisonStickle

Thank you for saying this. It annoys me intensely when anyone says... but the Queen does pay tax. She was forced to pay income tax back in the 90s, after an investigative programme on the telly that I remember seeing, and so the non payment of tax was rescinded due to public opinion.

And the two Duchies (Cornwall and Lancaster) pay no CGT or Corporation tax. Why? They are run exactly like Companies, why should they be exempt?

Today the Duchies also benefit from these two massive tax breaks but it doesn't ring true. Although they operate like land companies they don't pay corporation tax nor capital gains tax. The supposed reason for this immunity is that the Queen’s estate is akin to Crown property and the Crown cannot tax itself. But if it aspires to be Crown (i.e., state) property, then that makes it a public and not private estate— so the RF manage to flip the status of these duchies depending on whats advantageous at the time.

On IHT... the Queen Mother leaving the whole of her estate to her daughter saved her £30million in IHT thanks to the sovereign to sovereign tax break set up for the RF in 1993. QMother set up some trusts for her GC but that was it.

[quote ChurchofLatterDayPaints]@StormzyinaTCup When the first "elected royal" died, what would you do then? Carry on an X-Factor system where we just vote for anyone from the Windsors who can be arsed to turn up and perform?
[/quote]
Unlikely someone would die during their tenure, the Windsors are blessed with rude health. It may be that they are good at the role and are revoted in over several tenures so health could become an issue but I don’t think we would be voting in at first knockings a nearly 80yr old as the US have done with Biden, so it wouldn’t be a problem that is likely to crop up in the short term. It doesn’t need to be all X factor style and it may be the case that the Windsor dynasty gradually fades out and then you run with something more akin to Ireland etc.

The tax situation is scandalous, they’re not alone though. The Duke of Westminster - richest man in Britain and owner of most of W1 - didn’t pay a penny in inheritance tax. If you’re wealthy enough our iniquitously unfair and complex tax system allows so many ways of avoiding paying up. Trusts seem to be the most favoured option.

Some posters have referred to William having an affair....does anyone know if there is any evidence it is really true?

I find it hard to believe he would be so stupid as to take that risk if he really wanted the monarchy to continue; his popularity is probably the best hope there is for that so surely the RF would upset Kate at their peril. But then again, they have plenty of form for upsetting royal DILs so I shouldn't be surprised if it were true.

It was just a horrible, stupid rumour, Livingtothefull.

I'd rather pay my £1.29 and stick with what we've got than go through anything like that again thanks

I think we pay a lot more than that.....

But even that is too much to throw at one family. Funny how the money we give the royals is broken down that way. We don't do it with anything else.

Funny how the money we give the royals is broken down that way. We don't do it with anything else

That’s the PR machine for you. They really are excellent at their job.

All those £1.29s would go a long way if put towards the nhs, homeless accommodation, social care, etc, etc.

Thanks Plumtree391, I don't think accusations should be made without concrete evidence.

Heaven help them though if any evidence should arise......there have been rumours for years that Andrew was an unpleasant character and now we have the evidence to prove it.

And on the subject of spending money....the lavish plans for celebrating the Platinum Jubilee next year have been announced.

Is it just me that thinks all this is utterly tone deaf? I am in no mood for celebrating anything at this time. We are still recovering from a devastating pandemic with 100,000s dead, and it is not over yet; millions facing grief, uncertainty and deprivation. I fail to see how this is going to 'lift the nation's spirits'.

All those £1.29s would go a long way if put towards the nhs, homeless accommodation, social care, etc, etc.

That sounds very similar to something I have seen before on the side of a bus

The affair has been reported at length abroad, there's an injunction on it being reported here.

Yes, the Queen and her taxes was one of the big scandals of the early 90s and she was pretty much forced to start paying them because public opinion was such that if she hadn't the monarchy may not have survived.

So many of the richest and most privileged have their properties and wealth tied up in these Trusts so that nothing much ever belongs to them, it's just part of the Dukedom or the Estate or whatever.

Many also present the Trusts as part of the ongoing conservation and stewardship of their estates, PRing it into a benefit for society, whereas it's actually a way for them to avoid paying their dues and having to sell up if they can't afford to keep their assets.

All those £1.29s - actually it’s more like £2 - add up to around a month’s running costs for a large hospital. As I pointed out upthread, the annual budget this year for University College Hospital, London is £940 million. All those £1.29s or £2s add up to less than 10% of that. In government spending terms the sovereign grant is peanuts.

It was also mentioned in the UK as known about in the aristocratic circles before the royal PR machine leapt into action and threatened anyone mentioning it.

In government spending terms the sovereign grant is peanuts.

Oh so that’s just the SG. Conveniently left out the Duchies did they? Why am I not surprised 😆

Anyway, if a big corporation failed to pay their tax to around the time of 100 million a year, would we be saying ‘oh that’s only the running cost of x big hospitals, no biggie’

I doubt it.

These are immensely wealthy people to begin with. Positioning it as Joe Bloggs scraping by on UC giving up 1.29 (in reality far more) to them makes me feel more than a bit sick tbh.

That sounds very similar to something I have seen before on the side of a bus

What, so we can never talk about redistribution of money again because of that? How strange and anti progressive.

@TheKeatingFive

In government spending terms the sovereign grant is peanuts.

Oh so that’s just the SG. Conveniently left out the Duchies did they? Why am I not surprised 😆

Anyway, if a big corporation failed to pay their tax to around the time of 100 million a year, would we be saying ‘oh that’s only the running cost of x big hospitals, no biggie’

I doubt it.

These are immensely wealthy people to begin with. Positioning it as Joe Bloggs scraping by on UC giving up 1.29 (in reality far more) to them makes me feel more than a bit sick tbh.

Are you 'Joe Bloggs scraping by on UC'?

Anyway, if a big corporation failed to pay their tax to around the time of 100 million a year, would we be saying ‘oh that’s only the running cost of x big hospitals, no biggie’

No we wouldn’t and I didn’t. I didn’t mention tax, I was specifically talking about all those £1.29s.

Obviously everyone one should pay tax, whether they’re the Queen or Jeff Bozos but somehow it’s only the wealthiest who get away with it, not just royalty.

Are you 'Joe Bloggs scraping by on UC'?

No. Is that relevant?

@TheKeatingFive

Are you 'Joe Bloggs scraping by on UC'?

No. Is that relevant?

Very

No we wouldn’t and I didn’t. I didn’t mention tax

I know.

However your argument was ‘it’s only x, so why bother’

I was wondering if you applied that to other sums of roughly 100 mill that are essentially state assets that the state cannot avail of

And surprise, surprise, no you don’t.