To have completely changed my mind about WFH?

[MauvePinkRose]

I know there is a WFH thread but I mean this more generally than the specific things about it that are driving me to drink!

Pre pandemic, I would have said that WFH was a positive thing that employers should absolutely allow, reducing traffic and therefore pollution, allowing more quality time at home.

Now, I’ve changed my mind.

I think it’s having a negative impact on public transport, which in turn will lead to redundancies and reduced public transport, which is bad news for those who can’t drive. It is also having a knock on effect on things like coffee kiosks and sandwich bars.

Then, I’m not convinced that WFH is as productive as people think. I don’t know what’s going on with DVLA for instance but I am still waiting for a driving license I sent off for three months ago and you can’t get through on the phones.

It’s turned family homes into workplaces and thus impacts everyone. I’ve had some really stressful and unpleasant times because of it.

And I do think it’s not very healthy. Dp rarely leaves the house without me, has gained weight and falls ill all the time as I just feel he isn’t gaining any natural immunity.

I’ll probably be flamed by all the WFHers now

I am so pleased that WFH has forced a lot of rethinking and I’m excited about the future.

Lots of good opportunities, such as ‘office hubs’ which are smaller but more social. Sometimes you can just rent part of an office if you don’t want to be at home, and meet people in all kinds of industries.

Less traffic and public transport on the road. Honestly in the UK our roads are not coping with all the traffic, the pollution is something we are increasingly aware of esp for our kids growing up in it.

Coffee places just can be more local - know of several new pop up coffee ‘bars’ that you can drive through or drink outside. They’ve become really popular with WFHomers out for their daily walk or people meeting outside.

I think environmental factors need to be absolute priority in the times we are in.

I enjoy working from home but I can get on with work when I need to. Yes I have time to do more things for myself, have no commute time and admittedly love it, love being around more for my children, but.. Long term I imagine a mix would be the ideal.

100% WFH probably not ideal.
Back to 5 days in the office, definitely not ideal.

Less traffic and public transport on the road. Honestly in the UK our roads are not coping with all the traffic, the pollution is something we are increasingly aware of esp for our kids growing up in it.

This isn’t a good argument for wfh. In many areas in my region data shows traffic is now higher than it was pre-pandemic, because people who would have commuted to the office via public transport are now driving in one or two days, are driving the school runs, are driving to the gym or the shops in the middle of the day.

No.
Economy-wise, people aren't going to just hoard their pret money. It will stimulate other areas of the economy. I also think that losing businesses that rely on selling overpriced sandwiches to harried office workers are not a net loss to the world
In terms of the social aspect, I've never made friends with coworkers because I already have friends that won't go to HR if I say something that offends them.
I recommend that you all try it.
If you don't enjoy being around the people that you chose to create and spend your life with, that also shouldn't be made my problem.

@candlelightsatdawn

Also probably because they are used to doing 100 things before 6am and can do it without breaking a sweat and value being valued .

Yes, very true. I think the way things were in the working world weren't really geared up to support working mothers. But this new hybrid solution with the flexibility to put in your hours and ensure you get your work done whilst also having to do mummy things - well, I think, I hope, it will open up more opportunities professionally for that tier of society. Not before time TBH

@Thesandmanishere

Also to any poster that said they feel trapped at home, you know where your front door is, start going out of it

Yes! Who is keeping you "locked up"?! Go outside FFS!!

Love the empathy for people with depression etc. My mental health got so much better when I moved to office working from WFH because I was forced to go out, even if I really, really didn't feel like it. I am never, ever going to voluntarily go out for a walk on a gloomy November morning in the pissing rain.

Some of us really struggle to go out for the sake of it. I need to have somewhere to go, something to do. I really can't do the 'walk around for no reason' thing.

I think what really is interesting about this thread is that while overwhelming the responses are in favour of WFH, the votes are not, and I do think that this might be because a lot of WFHers really can’t see the impact that this has on the rest of the family.

I know if my partner was asked he would say that WFH is entirely positive, because that’s his perception. Mine is totally different.

And yes people can reply that is an individual response but no more or less so than the several posts saying ‘well I never buy coffee.’

It isn’t just or even mostly about coffee. If is about a change that, if it is permanent, means families will live in a workplace, and that isn’t always a good thing .

Love the empathy for people with depression etc.

You mean like all the empathy there was for me when I had to work in an office for 10 years because home working wasn't deemed viable?

I completely recognise a lot of people's mental health has suffered as a result of pandemic induced restriction, but you equally have to recognise that there were those of us who were drowning for years because we were forced to work in physical workplaces (plus other things), and if you complained you were told the problem lay with you and you just had to get on with it because, sorry and everything, but that's just how the world is.

@Rozziie just to be clear my post wasn't to attack people with depression. My post it to highlight that the tools to your own prison are in front of you.
I say this as someone who's had very bad depression. Sad fact about it is, the only one who could help me out of the darkness was me.

The office isn't the only place to socialise, and going for a walk in the rain isn't the only second option. You have to find what suits you (whatever it is) but because some people prefer things a certain way (MH or preference) that doesn't mean that's anyone else's views are immediately discounted or invalid. Your opinions are your own. But you have options which is a choice, your choice shouldn't limit other people's choices just because.

if it is permanent, means families will live in a workplace, and that isn’t always a good thing This needn’t be the case at all.

As companies save money by more WFH, that cost can be used for home office spaces, or local ‘hubs’.

And also for people like me - all I had was living with the family (being a carer of disabilities) - and now I can actually work which is massive to people like me and my family. The cost of childcare for those with severe disabilities is prohibitive.

I agree WFH does have it’s issues. But I think this is far, far outweighed by the advantages. And a hybrid with lots of flexibility is perfect - so that if people need or want an outside office space they can choose that.

Surely this is showing that flexibility and a mixed approach is best?

For all my grumbling I can quite see that everyone being in five days a week Monday to Friday isn’t necessary and if that gives people a better work / life balance that’s all good.

But I do think there should be a bit more consideration to the fact that homes are not offices, that this can impact negatively on people as well as positively and that some office work is often necessary, if only do you don’t forget what your colleagues look like in the flesh!

Sorry but if you’re not showering/exercising/getting out of the house because of WFH that’s totally on you. I love WFH - totally rejigged my work/life balance. I’d like to go into the office for a change of scene 2 days a week, WFH for 3. I exercise more regularly than ever before as I’m not knackered, I keep on top of housework and I get out of the house now that everything is open again due to socialising/exercise classes/generally getting out and about to the shops and normal stuff like that. My commute used to make me utterly miserable but it would be bearable only a couple of days a week. I think the key element here is choice - WFH clearly works for a lot of people but doesn’t work for others. Why should everyone be forced into one or the other?

@MauvePinkRose also I am massively in favour of working from home. However I voted YANBU because if it doesn’t work for you I think you should have the option of an office. Like many others I guess. However if you shut down WFH for me, because you put pressure on employers to only do WFH or only suit your agenda, I’d be putting YABVVU because I’d then lose my only income!

I think a lot of people don’t ‘exercise’ in a formal sense but just normal movement throughout the day can be hugely restricted if WFH.

Of course that varies from person to person but a lot of people won’t ‘go for a walk’ but will cycle into the office, or walk to a tube station. Even just walking from the car park into the office is a few hundred steps for me. I’ve done 8500 steps today just from moving around. When I was at home in the first lockdown I often didn’t manage 6000 even with an actual ‘walk’ built in.

I like it because I don't like leaving the house at 5.45am to get on three packed tubes to make it to work on time :)

I am fully supportive of hybrid working but I, personally, don't want to work in a hybrid way. I want to be 100% WFH. I have got literally no need to go into the office and I won't be going in because other people want me to, because they want a chat in the office kitchen.

@MauvePinkRose

I think personally it's choice and some type of hybrid version. Bit of both worlds. Allowing people the freedom to chose may ultimately not be as such of a big deal as everyone fears and bring about the ruin of society and a recession (which has been coming well before pandemic of statics are to be believed)

Freedom to chose is probably something adults will value as it treats adults like adults in the workplace and opposed to places treat staff like naughty kids. Although I have managed a lot of "naughty kid types" and I do sympathise with managing them at the best of times. But it's not undoable.

I think a mix of both is best, and am pleased that I will be going to the hybrid model once we get back in which will be 2 days in and 3 days out.

I disagree that the status quo should be maintained to feed other industries such as cafes and transport as:

1 environmentally we do need to reduce travel

2 people working at home will help smaller community businesses rather than everything crammed in to cities, this will benefit people in the community who do not work as they will have more choice locally.

But definitely a mix of in office and wfh is my favourite approach.

Like most things in life, different things suit different people depending on circumstances, personality, and the job role and position (i.e. level of seniority and previous experience).

I can see both sides. I went freelance pre-covid to be able to work from home and have since found a permanent wfh job. It's been absolutely essential for my mental health to have that, I struggled massively with spending up to 10-12 hours a day outside the home, sometimes in a windowless office. I am lucky to have the space and a quiet environment at home though, and can imagine it's not easy for those who live in already cramped conditions with other people around and no space.

In terms of businesses, the local cafes and bakeries are absolutely thriving now with the extra custom from people who previously spent the day in the city centre. I just saw one of the bakery-cafes nearby advertising for new staff because they're growing.

Public transport is an interesting one. Round here it's been overcrowded for years (to the point you sometimes couldn't get on a bus or train because it was already packed) so it's amazing to use it now and it's much quieter, but I understand funding will become an issue. Public transport has been underfunded for years though so big changes are needed anyway, it's not sustainable for car use to keep going up (my area is already highly polluted with an A road going through it).

Not RTFT but in terms of public transport, it's chicken and egg. People don't want to use it because the schedules are not back to normal but they won't put them back to normal until more people travel. Also people don't want to use them because they are too expensive and people don't have to wear masks in England.

As for kiosks, cafes etc, well that's tail waggng dog. Businesses grow where the need is. If the need isn't in one area or sector it will grow in another. New cafes are springing up all over the place in my town - when I moved here there was one cafe!

And I completely agree that employers should be flexible, permit employees to play to their strengths. It is difficult to argue that someone who's worked effectively at home for 18 months now needs to be in the office FT.

As for the DVLA they have been on strike - and we should also see a difference when furlough ends and unscrupulous employers who are abusing the furlough scheme get their staff back to work. The likes of British Gas, for example - their sector has never closed down so there has been no reason for any of their staff to be furloughed. Yet if you try to call, you can't get through. It's not because they are WFH because other businesses have managed fine to operate remotely, such as Plusnet.

As for exercise, if I went into the office every day I would walk about 5 miles. It takes a certain level of dedication to get that sort of exercise if you are generally sat on your bottom at home all day. But on the other hand if you drive to work you may get no exercise and working from home gives you the chance to go out for a long walk or run. Different people have different circumstances and hence the need for flexibility.

On the other side though, funding for public transport in cities has always been much better than in rural and remote areas. You have elderly people living in small towns who can’t get to doctors or hospital appointments.

There will be more of a balance hopefully to fund public transport outside the cities which is badly needed. It’s one of the key factors in rural deprivation.

@Thesandmanishere

I am fully supportive of hybrid working but I, personally, don't want to work in a hybrid way. I want to be 100% WFH. I have got literally no need to go into the office and I won't be going in because other people want me to, because they want a chat in the office kitchen.

This is me. I don’t care if you want to be 100% from home, 100% from the office, 50/50 etc but let everyone have a choice.

I wonder whereabouts you are OP. Public transport here is still very busy, I haven't gotten on a quiet bus or train in months.
I still visit cafes while working from home, more than I ever did while working tbh and they don't seem to be struggling either. I went out with friends yesterday and tried to find somewhere for a cold drink, two cafes and a Starbucks were so full we ended up going to a horrible (and busy) health cafe instead

@NCBlossom

On the other side though, funding for public transport in cities has always been much better than in rural and remote areas. You have elderly people living in small towns who can’t get to doctors or hospital appointments.

There will be more of a balance hopefully to fund public transport outside the cities which is badly needed. It’s one of the key factors in rural deprivation.

Unfortunately that’s not likely since busy urban routes generally subsidise the rural provision. There should be a lot better public transport in rural areas, I completely agree, but networks collapsing in urban conurbations won’t help that situation at all.

For me personally WFH is great. I hated it during lockdown 1 but that was because my children were home & juggling wfh, with home schooling & childcare etc was a nightmare. Once schools returned I realised wfh was actually ok & now I prefer it.
Both DH & I are now permanently wfh - & whilst we do need a bigger house so we can have actual office spaces - wfh has meant we've been able to get rid of one of our cars; we can take & pick up DC from school, can take them to after school clubs, be in for deliveries etc without needing to take time off etc & for me, the comforts of a decently heated room - my old office was freezing in the winter!
I'm used to working alone as my boss was out of the office pre-pandemic over 50% of the time anyway. Plus my colleagues are based in London & I'm in the SW. Now we have a weekly team call which is great to feel more connected; we didn't have that before. Now my boss has permanently closed our office so we both wfh now.
For us the benefits of wfh outweigh the negatives.