To have ivf in this situation?

[Maybebaby111]

This isn’t really an AIBU, but not sure where it belongs really.

I went to see a fertility doctor today after 3 years of TTC my second child. (DS is 5 and was conceived naturally instantly - first try). I’m 41. Ivf, the doctor said, is pretty much the only chance we have of conceiving because of DH’s sperm.

We already have one DS, so I don’t know whether or not all the heartache and expense for something that only has a 20% chance of working is good for me?

But what if I don’t try and I could have had another?

Ds will be a minimum 6 by the time any baby came along, so a fair gap.

And I’m worried that the IVF would spiral into a “one more try” thing, and it would take years and years and maybe not even work.

My age isn’t unusual in London, where I live. But I suppose I really don’t know whether or not to try.

I look at DS’ old baby things and cry. I’m a mess.

Any experiences or advice?

I was where you are 14 years ago. Had been ttc baby no.2 for two years, having tried for 18 months for DS. Dh told he had low motility and count, and that it was unlikely we would conceive another child naturally.

personally the things I thought about re having IVF were:

Did I want to put myself through everything it involved, including the cost, with no potential outcome?

I was of the view that I would only want to try once to avoid ending up in a cycle where I just couldn’t stop, but then arose the question as to what would happen if I’d produced more embrioes and didn’t get pregnant first go. Could I have them destroyed knowing that they might hold the potential for another baby?

In the end I decided that it was far better to be grateful for what I had rather than spend time, money and energy chasing what I didn’t have, perhaps without success .

We decided not to go for IVF, we did continue trying for another couple of years, after which I realised that for me the age gap was too big and so we gave up. I split from my H 5 years later for different reasons, and looking back I’m now glad I didn’t end up a single parent to two children rather than one as it would have been so much more difficult.

But at the end of the day it’s a decision which only you can make.

Having been through many rounds of ivf for our first I’d definitely agree that if you decide to go for it, set a maximum number and stick to it. It’s such an emotional (as well as physical) roller coaster that you can’t let it go on and on.
Good luck OP.

I agree, from personal experience, with the PPs suggesting that you spend three months on improving DH's count/motility through diet. Put yourself on a diet to optimise your fertility too. It may well work, but even if it doesn't work it will still put you on a better footing re possible IVF. There are pros and cons re IVF, especially when you are older but if you really want a second child, you should probably try it because otherwise you may well look back later on and regret not trying it.

I had my first naturally at 23 and we tried again when DS
was 3. As the years passed we looked into any fertility issues but it was unexplained. We started IVF when I was 29. I ended up having 6 transfers and I am currently 3 weeks away from having my baby so it does have a happy ending. However it has been horrendous having 2 egg collections, a blighted ovum, a miscarriage and an ectopic pregnancy. I only did the second egg collection because it was part of a package we had paid for up front. If you were childless then I think go for it but as you already have one and are 41, then I would say that even though there is a chance it would work, the odds are very much against you and the journey is long, hard and expensive. If you do go for it, then maybe look into the refund packages. I didn't do one of those but when I felt like it was never going to happen, I wished I had gone through one of them, to at least cushion the blow when it didn't work.

Would your husband not consider a donor?

In terms of siblings and age gap, it really is luck of the draw whether two siblings will get on - as children and as adults. Not just about age gap but personalities.
My sister and I are 6 years apart. Had little in common as children - I left home to go to university when she was 12!!!
As we got older and starting having similar life experience - first job, houseshares, first serious long term relationship etc the gap shrank.
Now as adults in our thirties we get on well.

Sorry I meant to say can’t comment on IVF as no experience but it sounds like it would definitely be helpful to put some boundaries in place if you decide to try.

Would you be willing to look into sperm donation?

It would massively up your chances of success. Just a thought.

I was in your position a few years ago tho a little younger at 37. First DC conceived naturally and instantly. After 18 months of trying for the second we started looking at treatment. There were no issues with either of us that they could see. IUI wasn't going to give us a better chance that what we were already doing. We scheduled a round of IVF as it was starting to become all consuming ... we got very lucky and literally the day I was going in for final checks / first set of injections (sorry I can't quite remember - it was a long time ago) I did a test and was of course pregnant.

I believe the relief of feeling I was doing something to help myself and also two cycles worth of acupuncture really helped.

Anyway I'd definitely consider it if I were you.

What’s his count and what’s his mobility %.

It’s pretty low - count is 2 million and mobility is 10-30%.

To be honest, in the last year or so we’ve only done it in the fertile days too! I have often thought that isn’t the best idea! But it was beginning to feel a little hopeless.

I'm sorry as I can hear how painful this is for you.

Personally I wouldn't go ahead. I think the age difference would be too big for your ds to really benefit from a sibling, and I can see many negatives for your existing dc, as well as for yourself in terms of both the emotional and financial impact.

@Maybebaby111

What’s his count and what’s his mobility %.

It’s pretty low - count is 2 million and mobility is 10-30%.

To be honest, in the last year or so we’ve only done it in the fertile days too! I have often thought that isn’t the best idea! But it was beginning to feel a little hopeless.

So count is a little on the low side but I think motility only needs to be around 40%. Would you be open to a sort of sperm boot camp? One way or another the swimmers leave the tank every 3 days (honestly DH went from 10% total motility to 79% progressive motility by ensuring frequent ejaculation), get some proxeed plus for DH, no laptop on lap or phone in pocket, no hot baths or hot tubs short warm showers instead, loose boxers only, cut down on booze, nice healthy diet, didn’t see if DH smoked? But cut it out if he does. Takes about 3 months for these things to make a difference. I think I saw you said DH had undescended testicles as a child? I’m guessing it was fixed early in life as you’ve already conceived naturally?

My DH also went to a few acupuncture sessions too. I swear these helped but I do think practitioner is key in this space.

Maybe these changes will be enough to support ‘natural’ conception? But even if not would definitely give you a lot better odds if you did decide to go down the ivf route.

People often say "oh we went on holiday / booked to start IVF and then conceived naturally" as though this somehow made it happen. Being able to conceive is a numbers game. Depending on the % likelihood of natural conception it could be that they had been ttc for 2/3 years at that point and the odds were then in their favour.

We had 3 free sessions of counselling from our IVF clinic which has been helpful, as we've discussed where we both feel our limits are - ie we definitely don't want donor eggs or sperm. Would that be a possibility? We found it easier to have the conversation in a "controlled" environment.

Have you considered ICSI if poor sperm quality is the issue? Success rate is much higher than IVF I think, as a single healthy sperm is injected into an egg then the embryos grown for longer in the lab before inserting.

I take it you’ve had your tubes checked (historiography or lap&dye)? I had mine checked after years TTC and was pregnant within 2months.

Also get your DH to have more than one sperm analysis; mine gave a sample that was below every parameter so we were told chances were minimal. He went on a health kick for 3 months (healthy eating, less sitting down to work, no tight underwear etc) and the next analysis was normal!

I’m currently pregnant with an IVF baby from my 2nd transfer. All being well even though we have frozen embryos we will probably not go again, but DH and I most likely only want one child so that’s different from your situation.

Factors I think are important are, if you are to do this and spend say £6000-£8000 per round, how will that impact your finances? If it won’t make a dent that’s one thing, but otherwise that’s money that could be spent on your existing family, and personally I couldn’t spend all of my savings or run into debt when my existing child needs me to be solvent and ideally I want a decent chunk of savings for emergencies, to give them life experiences and to help with things like university down the line. If you spent all your money on IVF and then your DS needed something unexpected that you couldn’t provide would you regret it? Plus if you’re successful would you be able to afford maternity leave and childcare if you had spent all your savings.

Health wise, could you cope with going through multiple miscarriages which are not always but can be a feature of trying in your 40s? I’m in my 30s but have had two, a miscarriage of a natural pregnancy and a miscarriage after my first IVF transfer and miscarrying after IVF was truly heartbreaking. In IVF you are going, physically and mentally, through a lot including hormone injections, pills, pessaries, surgery (egg collection), procedures and the emotional toll can be enormous. It’s the hardest thing I’ve ever done. Then there’s the impact on your DS who is probably old enough to tell if you are struggling. And the fact that chromosomal abnormalities are high, 1/66 at age 40 and going up every year in your 40s. How would a termination for medical reasons affect you? How would a disabled sibling affect your DS?

It would be easy to say just go for it but I think it’s worth having a good think and discussion with your DH about the risks and definitely have some counselling, and then make the right decision for your family, which might be to go ahead.

Come and join us on the infertility boards. There's a thread for people TTC their second child but having difficulties.

With respect, on other parts of the forum you're going to get responses from people who had their children easily and have never been through the pain and heartbreak of trying and failing to have a child.

As for me I have been TTC #2 for 5 years. Had 5 failed IVF cycles. Don't even want to know how much we've spent but it's over £50,000. But I am still going to continue. Started when my DC was 2, they're now 7.

You'll get people saying just adopt - which is infuriating.

People saying but it's no guarantee siblings will get on - but what if they do?

People saying the age gap is too big - personally I think it doesn't matter about the age gap, that feels shorter as they get older. Plus I am thinking about the future. I want my child to have nieces and nephews in the future, a sibling, a family, not to always be on their own.

Come and join the Infertility (I hate that word) boards and talk to people who have experienced what you're going through.

Haven’t read all the replies so sorry if I’m repeating.
Have you considered the package deals?
We tried for our second when our first (also ivf) was 4. Difference being we knew we needed ivf, no question.
The issue was also male factor although I have a few issues too. We paid for the 2 fresh and unlimited frozen and would have got a refund if it hadn’t worked. It also costs a bit more than one fresh so you have to weigh up the odds / cost difference etc etc. Sod’s law, it worked for us first time (we had several rounds a few years before, paid for as one off rounds and they all failed) but it was worth the risk. We also pain for ICSI and IMSI which was worth it given the number of eggs I had (not many) and giving it every chance possible. I was 35 at the time though - so not sure I could do it now. I think I probably would give it one try though as I’d always think “what if” if I hadn’t.

Sorry , also given your age, you may not be eligible for the full refund package , but I think they offer alternative types.

It's been a rollercoaster for DH and me to finally decide to go through IVF treatments and to look into it. We had a lot of discussions, lots of tears, and I also had therapy in order to realize why I was so negative about it. I wanted a child, but I was very negative on going for tests and for treatments, mostly because I was afraid what the problem would be. I felt guilty for not being able to "manage" on my own.

In any case, I would suggest talking your DP, and if you're both ready and willing to go through treatments to go with it and to set some boundaries - a budget, or certain cycles or something else.

Good luck!

Hi. I haven’t read all the replies either. Happy to share my experience though.

It took 2 years to conceive our eldest son, in the end naturally after various investigations. When we’d been TTC our second child for a year I visited the GP and she said there was no IVF funding for a second child and I breezily said ‘oh we wouldn’t have ivf when we already have a child’. Ha!

So we changed our minds (well I changed mine) and went private. Investigations showed I had poor ovarian reserve. So the clinic advised natural ivf (collecting one egg). Three failed cycles with worse egg quality every time and I was devastated. Knew I couldn’t carry on like that so we made a decision to stop.

Took a few months out to think about whether we were ready to accept our family of three. But I wanted to go ahead and try egg donation. Which we did and we are very lucky to have our second child.

At the beginning I could never have seen myself going for egg donor ivf. But it’s a step by step by step thing. I didn’t feel ready to give up. I don’t know when I would have done. I can’t say how many cycles we would have tried of egg donor ivf if the first one hadn’t worked. I was very clear I was ready to give up with my own eggs though so I hope that same feeling would have happened.

We have a 5 year gap and our younger child was worth all the heartache. And all the money. We didn’t put ourselves into debt though. I wouldn’t have done that (I don’t think).

It’s really hard to know what to do. Really hard. But I didn’t feel like I could stop trying.

For what it’s worth he’s 6 now and I know we’re done now. No temptation to try for a third.

I would be reluctant to go ahead on a 20% chance. But I've read some private clinics have a much better success rate than others. If I could afford one of those I might be tempted to try. But I absolutely understand why people just never give up. Once I started I don't think I coukd put boundaries in place. It very much depends on the individual I think. Hope things work out.

@PeterPomegranate do you mind if I DM you please? My DH and I might have to go down the DE route for our second and I’d like to ask some questions if that’s ok please?

Op I was in a similar boat, and went for it. My options came down to go for IVF or get rid of all my baby stuff. I wasn't ready to get rid and give up hope.
I'd set my mind we'd do one round then walk away.

My odds were about 20% first transfer of 2 embryos failed, FET 2 embryos one failed one made it.
Which makes me think the calculate the odds per embryo, 4 embryos 1 made it.

Yes that’s absolutely fine. We had our treatment 7 years ago so may be out of date but happy to help if I can.

Sorry that was to @Giveandhaveandshareandreceive