To have ivf in this situation?

[Maybebaby111]

This isn’t really an AIBU, but not sure where it belongs really.

I went to see a fertility doctor today after 3 years of TTC my second child. (DS is 5 and was conceived naturally instantly - first try). I’m 41. Ivf, the doctor said, is pretty much the only chance we have of conceiving because of DH’s sperm.

We already have one DS, so I don’t know whether or not all the heartache and expense for something that only has a 20% chance of working is good for me?

But what if I don’t try and I could have had another?

Ds will be a minimum 6 by the time any baby came along, so a fair gap.

And I’m worried that the IVF would spiral into a “one more try” thing, and it would take years and years and maybe not even work.

My age isn’t unusual in London, where I live. But I suppose I really don’t know whether or not to try.

I look at DS’ old baby things and cry. I’m a mess.

Any experiences or advice?

In your position I didn't do it. Had ivf with first dc at age 27. Worked first time and the process was actually way easier than I had anticipated- think this was down to my young age and naivety. My protocol was quite mild too due to my age and I ended up not having very many eggs so nothing to freeze- but we only needed 1!

I had some huge career opportunities when dc1 was a toddler and couldn't not take it (was a 3 year programme). Returned to ivf clinic aged 33 and was given a 10-20 % chance of success. Dh and I decided against. My ivf experience had been positive and I've only ever been pregnant once so never experienced a miscarriage. I didn't want to risk it not happening or happening then having a loss then carrying that 'grief' around with me.

It's actually worked out really well! We're a really happy family of 3 (with a ddog as well). Now that dc is 10 we can provide them with lots of opportunities that would've been tricky to co- ordinate with more than one, and we have a very loving, fun, but calm household :-) .

Good luck in whatever path you choose x

Also struggling to conceive no.2. Have a beautiful almost 4yo. In your situation, I would give it a go (but only 1-3 tries max). And be very clear about what your limits are.

Your age is the single most important factor in whether IVF is likely to be successful and I think you already know you aren't in the best position in that regard - although you do say your test results are good. IVF was tougher than I anticipated, even as a fit 33 year old with great test results (male factor). It sounds like you might benefit from discussing ICSI with a fertility consultant, but I agree with others that you need to have some firm boundaries in place before going ahead. I'd suggest looking at mild or natural IVF which focuses on quality over quantity.

100% in your situation I would go for it. I would set a limit on the number of tries/time - although prepare for this to shift a bit because ivf is also a diagnostic process in that you don't know how it's going to go until you try it. If it doesn't work then at least you know you tried everything. Good luck.

@wombforanotherone

100% in your situation I would go for it. I would set a limit on the number of tries/time - although prepare for this to shift a bit because ivf is also a diagnostic process in that you don't know how it's going to go until you try it. If it doesn't work then at least you know you tried everything. Good luck.

This. Incidentally we had the same diagnosis (EXTREMELY low count and motility) and needed ICSI on top of IVF. Had our kids at 41 and 43, so it worked.

I honestly don't know if he can help, but have you tried this guy

jonathanramsay.co.uk/

(Male fertility specialist)

@talkalarm

I honestly don't know if he can help, but have you tried this guy

jonathanramsay.co.uk/

(Male fertility specialist)

DH has been referred to a urologist by the NHS, but this man sounds like a real expert. Thank you! I may follow up on that!

Sorry you’re in this situation. Have experienced secondary infertility and was very lucky to have DC2.

Who suggested to you that there’s a 20% chance of you and DH having a baby with IVF? Would look more into the odds: 20% seems over optimistic given the circumstances.

In your situation with odds of 20% or less I wouldn’t do IVF.

I was in exactly your position OP. I had my DS naturally at 41. Assumed I would have a second fairly easily. That didn't happen. We did 2 rounds of IVF, which didn't work, and that's where we stopped. I don't regret having the IVF, as at least I feel that I tried. But with hindsight I now think that if I wasn't getting pregnant naturally, why would the outcome be any different with IVF, when it was the same (old) eggs and same (old) sperm!! And that basically is the issue that you are dealing with, unless you are considering donor eggs.

I think if you really really want a second child you should go for the IVF, you know your odds are lower but if you don't try I think you likely will regret it, especially if it is also what your DH also would like. It would be best to decide on a max number of trys for both fresh and frozen cycles. There is a lot you can do to improve your egg quality and his sperm quality, my suggestion is to read the book it starts with the egg, it also has a chapter for men and what they can do to improve their sperm. It really helped us. You might also want to consider using doner sperm if male factor infertility is the main reason you would need IVF, it also sounds like you would need to do icsi. I had success with my first round of IVF with icsi due to male factor infertility and have a 4 year old D's from that round I was 31 when he was born. We have had 2 more fresh cycles, one freeze all cycle and 3 more FETs since then with repeated implantation failure on the fresh cycles, all the frozen cycles have resulted in pregnancy but with losses at 8 week and 26 weeks. Frozen transfers have a higher success rate in older women than fresh cycles, you might be better off doing a freeze all followed by a FET. My most successful round has been my freeze all followed by a FET which I am currently pregnant with a healthy boy, the first time we have had normal anatomy scans, we have 3 more embryos frozen. We followed the advanced plan in it starts with the egg for this cycle. Our total costs are somewhere in the 50k region, all paid for with loans and credit cards, we are below average earners.

Would adoption be an option for you as a family?

It sounds like this could be incredibly difficult on you all, with those odds, I couldn't put myself through it. 💐

In terms of ds and his potential sibling, please do bear in mind that your ds is 6 now so even if you got pregnant tomorrow there will be a 7 year age gap. I don't know the age of the sibling that your dh is close to, but your ds isn't going to get the experience of growing up with a sibling close in age whatever happens now.

I'm speaking from experience having also gone through secondary infertility. There's a 7 year gap between my two - never at the same school, don't share many interests (partly age, partly personality). I don't in any way regret it - and actually I'm not entirely sure they'd have got on very well if ds2 had been the traditional 2-3 yr age gap! - but there's a lot about the situation that is like having two only children. They may well be close as adults where age gaps reduce in significance over time (I'm not close to my sibling with a small age gap by the way).

We chose not to go down the IVF route but our fertility issues were completely unexplained. It took 4 years in the end.

Reasons for not going for IVF were:

• cost as obviously no funding due to ds1
• low guarantee of success due to age and knowing that financially it would be a one-shot only

But, we did eventually have a second child so I can't actually say for 100% certainty how I would have felt if that hadn't happened (we were coming up to our self-imposed age deadline for trying, but honestly would I have gone back on to contraception? I think one of us would have had to have been sterilised to actually draw a line which would have been devastating).

It was a miserable thing to go through. I'm sorry you are too.

@LemonFantaGin

Would adoption be an option for you as a family?

It sounds like this could be incredibly difficult on you all, with those odds, I couldn't put myself through it. 💐

Ffs.

Adoption is an incredibly difficult option.

If it were me, I would want to feel like I had at least tried once/twice or whatever your limit is. The 'what if it did work' would be too much to bear, whereas I could live with 'we gave it our best shot and it didn't work'.

I'm saying that as someone who has had successful ICSI though so maybe have a rose tinted view of it.

If you have the money to do it straight away, without having to restrict your life too drastically, I would do one round and if it doesn't work, organise a lovely holiday and try to draw a line under it. There are too many what ifs, so one go with your eyes wide open.

I wouldn't waste the time you have with your DS focusing on the children you can't have - that will be a bigger regret in the longer term. Your DS will pick up on it, if it turns into a long run of cycles, he'll feel inadequate.

If you want another child then go for it
If you solely want a sibling for your child then I wouldn’t

@LemonFantaGin

Would adoption be an option for you as a family?

It sounds like this could be incredibly difficult on you all, with those odds, I couldn't put myself through it. 💐

Please please can you not suggest this- adoption is for people that want to adopt (far harder than raising ones own child), it is not merely a route to have a child when you can’t.

It’s obviously such a personal thing but I started as a 35 year old and needed 3 rounds of iui and 8 cycles of ivf to have my child.
It’s such a numbers name and once you start it’s very hard to stop as you feel the next time has to work.
I’d a low egg count but my embryos were always good quality, they just didn’t stick.
If you were to do it I’d advise 3 cycles, the first one is really like a test, yes people get lucky but for most cases the drs learn how you respond to stims etc and tweak things for the next time.

Yes, try and be reasonably healthy but don’t obsess. I did the whole ‘it started with an egg’ thing and it absolutely took over my life and made me blame myself if I slipped up and ate something I shouldn’t have or used hand soap in someone’s house that wasn’t paraffin free. I remember googling how much caffeine was in malteasers as I feared I’d contaminated my eggs and then I would blame myself and feel it was all my fault if it didn’t work.
I did acupuncture sometimes twice a week for years, took a million vitamins, herbs etc

The time it worked I did counselling, no acupuncture and was far more relaxed with my diet, (80 percent healthy , 20 percent treats) I even had the odd glass of red wine , obviously not after the transfer.
I’m saying all this to say if you do go ahead you should think about setting boundaries and try to remember it’s mostly up to nature and you will have to accept that there isn’t a huge amount you can do about it.
That’s the way I’d approach it.
We didn’t go again, we were just so grateful that we had a healthy baby and we just needed to live life again.
Best of luck either way.

@Maybebaby111 we looked into using him when we did IVF years ago. He is a real expert and didn't seem that expensive (I think £150 for a consultation)

Good luck

(Ps we did go straight to IVF, honestly I found it quite easy although I was lucky enough to conceive. Should the world open up again and you choose IVF I went to Reprofit in Brno in the Czech Republic where we could have ICSI which is better for sperm problems. They were brilliant and much cheaper than UK)

I was in exactly the same situation as you (except I was a few years older). We did IVF with donor eggs, worked first time, beautiful second child born. All good, except my children have never got on, not when they were young and still now as teenagers. I worry that when my DH and I die, they won't have anything to do with each other. It's a source of great sadness to me and not one I remotely expected. I often think it would have been better for us to have stayed a one child family.

If IVF is you're only option there are some places that provide a money back guarantee if you don't have a successful pregnancy. It might be worth looking into some of those.

It’s worth doing your research because not all IVF clinics are equal - some have higher success rates than others so look good on paper, but may only take more straightforward cases or specialise in techniques that might not be appropriate. If your chances are lower due to issues with your husband’s sperm try to find clinics where the consultant has a specific expertise in that area, like the one suggested above. You’re better off investing in fewer rounds with a higher chance of success than more rounds with a lower chance.

What’s his count and what’s his mobility %.

Reason I ask is that we were told exactly the same thing but care fertility, we’ve since conceived 2 children without ivf. Looking back I do think the doctor was trying to sell us ivf plus genetic testing packages on top.

DHs parameters were all over the place, first count was good at 26 million, but motility was 22% and morphology 2%, on retest count looked ok 20 mil, motility down to 10% and morphology up to 3% and then final retest count down to 500,000, motility up to 80% and morphology back at 2%.

Morphology is one of the least understood parameters for conception- so we’ll park that area your DH doesn’t seem to have issues there.
Motility v count we found it was a tender balance between too much and too infrequent sexual activity. We found the sweet spot to be every 2/3 days that the swimmers needed to leave the tank.
To be really candid with you the stress and the seeming hopelessness of tcc meant at one point we were only active during the fertile windows.

The time that reflected the lower count was after a significant period of ‘activity’ 😉 stands to reason there’d be some correlation there as the tank never got chance to replenish.

We were never told any of the above info though on maintaining sperm health. I’ve since read proxeed plus is one of the few supplements clinically proven to help sperm counter

If you’ve conceived once naturally it’s certainly possible to do it again.

I think you have to try and you will always wonder what if

Tho obv depends if can afford ivf as can run into thousands

Yes age is a factor and lower odds for ivf

Tho I’m got preg with my 5th ivf , was almost 43 (2w off birthday) so almost 44 when gave birth

Dd cost us £27k

Just do it.
You clearly want this. If it doesn't work, you know you gave it a good try.

I had IVF, worked on the second attempt. The first attempt ended in a miscarriage. The first failure was really sad (as I thought this might be the end of my only chance at being a mother) but then the second attempt worked and I now have my beautiful son.

IVF wasn't, actually, that hard. Not hard physically - yes, the injections are unpleasant, and I felt a bit bloated and sore, but not bad at all. And not that bad emotionally because I ended up with a child after the disappointment of the failure of the first (and I recognized how different this is for those who desperately want a child and it doesn't work out).

Set a number of cycles that is manageable within your family budget (We are in the US, so knew that our insurance would only pay for 3 and that, after that, we could perhaps fund one cycle ourselves, so 4 cycles was our cut off).

I think that, as you already have a child, if it doesn't work, you could feel settled that you did try and that this is how things are meant to be - that your child has one much loved family in it.
And if it works, well, FABULOUS!