Is it going to be just mums and just dads forever now?

[ParentsandParents]

My wife has just had our first baby and well as splitting the load as much as possible I've been trying to join in with the community of new parents and be an active and equal participant. It's tough though. Partly because all the parenting classes, activities and meet ups are held during the week and I'm working at the moment, though I'll be doing three months of SPL later in the year. And partly because every new parents group, chat or meet up I join seems to either just be the women who've given birth and nobody else, or to quickly split into separate groups, meet ups and chats for 'mums' and 'dads' with the 'mums' often initiating this. Even when the point of meeting up or chatting is nothing to do with being a man or woman, and everything to do with being a new parent and / or meeting new people. It hasn't been like this so far in my life, I've always been in and seen mixed groups at work, in friendships and in activities. Is it unreasonable to have expected that new parents would want to spend time with other new parents, or that men and women could talk about our kids and be friends, or does something about new parenthood send everyone spiraling back to the 50's with the men in the pub talking about craft ale and what football team their kids will support and the women in the park talking about books and feeding? Will this change when our kid(s) are older or is this the way it's always going to be now we have a kid.

It does happen but it doesn’t have to. I used to hang out with dads and it was fine. In terms of socialising though it’s hard for both of you to go out in the evening so it inevitably splits this way….unless you get everyone to your house and chuck the kids to sleep upstairs!

It does get better but it's so frustrating at first. We had a Dad whose wife had Post-natal Psychosis so he had to take Parental Leave etc for their newborn. So many groups excluded him... "Mum and Baby" groups. We ended up going places where all were welcome. I had the problem of being white Mum to mixed race kid. I was told I wasn't welcome in groups aimed at "Ethnic kids" (I don't want to name which Minority for anti-troll reasons) because I was white. Now I get why these groups exist but I genuinely wanted my child to have the cultural exposure.

@WandaVision2

You seem to have missed an earlier point that was made. A lot of support women seek from such groups involves discussions of an intimate nature.

He hasn't missed that at all. He's referred to it in later posts. But really we only have those conversations in the first few months.

We shouldn't be looking for excuses to exclude men, where those reasons really don't apply.

Ooops. Sorry. I got to the bottom of a page and thought that was the last post. Clearly I missed a whole bunch of pages!

My DP is also super 50/50 supportive and feels the same! It evens out as they get older. Now DS is 2 all our nursery friends are couples and we hang out together. I love that your 1950s pub has craft ale in it ;)

@pollymere

It does get better but it's so frustrating at first. We had a Dad whose wife had Post-natal Psychosis so he had to take Parental Leave etc for their newborn. So many groups excluded him... "Mum and Baby" groups. We ended up going places where all were welcome. I had the problem of being white Mum to mixed race kid. I was told I wasn't welcome in groups aimed at "Ethnic kids" (I don't want to name which Minority for anti-troll reasons) because I was white. Now I get why these groups exist but I genuinely wanted my child to have the cultural exposure.

I am gobsmacked by that, pollymere. What a dreadful, stupid reason to exclude you. Whoever came up with that should be ashamed of themselves. So much for our multi-cultural society. I'm fuming on your behalf.

Birth, like it or not, is a woman's thing....And all the laughing and sharing and horror stories comes from that shared perspective.
In many cultures around the world, men are not part of it, and don't really want to be.

If you are both women, I can't see the issue {Sorry, I didn't RTFT and assumed that you were a male}.

@oakleaffy OP is female

[quote Thisgroupneverceasestoamazeme]@oakleaffy OP is female[/quote]
Cross post...I realised that !
I can't see a problem at all with her being involved in groups in that instance.

I wonder if some of the discomfort is the fact that OP is a mum who hasn’t given birth to the baby. I know this is something I still face three years into being an adoptive mum. I can imaging It’s a real bonding experience for women who have given birth to swap stories and compare notes. For those who haven’t given birth it can feel incredibly ‘othering’ and not very inclusive.

If you want to go to a group then go.

But honestly? I liked going to some groups and it only being mums there. We talked about breastfeeding and shared birth stories. And it's not a requirement for women to accept men into a group.

And this is coming from the perspective of a woman who had mostly male friends from age 12 to 30 when I had my first child. There genuinely are just some things that men don't understand and likewise mums won't grasp the perspective dads have.

Sing along at the library had some dads attending. Gymnastics likewise.

Once the group of mums I knew had got past the first six months and our husband's knew each other, we socialised as a group and my DH was mostly chatting to the women., and I ended up chatting with the dads.

If you want to join in then join in. But don't cry foul if you can't actually attend the group's right now because you are working.

Mums don't talk about 'parenting'.

They talk about pregnancy and childbirth and the joys of 1, 2, 4, 4:55, and 6am feedings, cracked nipples, hair loss, how their stitched back together perineums are feeling, and how useless their husbands are.

Don't begrudge them this time and space.

When DC were of that age I would go to alot of baby/toddler groups run by Bernardos that were mainly Mums, occasionally there was another Dad. Generally they were activity/sensory/singing music classes.
I worked 3 weeks away/3 home so this was my time to spend with my kids. Personally I didn't care if there were mainly Mums.
It is hard to find group activities for Dads especially as most are at work and many can't afford to take paternity leave.

This is why I never went to baby groups. None of it is for the baby. If you need to fit in it's not for you male or female!

And all of that happens while the women hoik out their boobs to feed their babies.

There is no way I would have participates in mixed sex group while trying to breastfeed.

Not sure how you managed to miss the fact that it's women who experience the massively challenging physical processes of pregnancy, childbirth and breastfeeding.

I've just read beyond page 1 and have seen you are a woman @ParentsandParents.

Your OP genuinely comes across as a disgruntled man.

You being the other mother does change things in terms of whether you'd be more welcome in the early days groups. If you are more annoyed at not being able to join in the group's that operate because you are work, then you will just have to suck that up. When you are on Parental Leave then join the group's.

And still no, not all groups split into mums OR dads. Just get to know people. You do come across here as rather forceful and keen to be seen as an injured party.

A) there are very few dads
B) what woman wants to talk about their body issues with a bloke she only met this morning? As two women going though the same thing, you bond.

YABU.

Even though you're a woman, you're not one who has gone through what the mothers have.

I couldn't chat with my sister in any meaningful way about pregnancy or recovery from childbirth until she has her first baby. I have friends who were adopted as babies who found it hard to talk to their adoptive mothers about pregnancy issues.

I couldn't chat in any meaningful way about recovery from a C section either, if I found myself in a roomful of women who had experienced that.

Nor would I have much to say or learn from a roomful of women doing formula feeding, cloth nappies, etc.

I go to music class, swimming class, toddler groups all attended by both mums and dads. There are more mums but the dads are all welcomed to join.
There was a mum and baby yoga class but that was more postpartum yoga where you could bring your baby along!
Maybe it depends what groups you are going to/ where you live

Hi OP I used to go to a baby sensory group with mainly mums and one dad (obvs plus baby). We would go for coffee after the class and the dad always joined. I think it just depends how friendly your group are. If you are part of an NCT group you can always ask to meet up with the mums/dads/whoever for play dates when you are on spl.

I agree with you. It often feels regressive to me too. Maybe baby groups should do so more so men feel welcome.

I guess there are clear biological roles associated with having a kid that divide people in a way you wouldn’t see at work or most hobbies. Shared parental leave isn’t yet a thing in the way it should be (maybe because of breastfeeding?) so women dominate everything baby related.

How long ago did your DP give birth? For most new Mum’s giving birth and breastfeeding can be traumatic and even hellish - they need a space where they can talk about that with other women, and process it.

Things mix up more as children get older, there’s plenty of time to get involved, volunteer at Beaver’s, PTA or rugby tots etc, and play a very involved part - but women need and are entitled to women only WhatsApp groups and meet ups when they’ve just had a baby.

Also, my partner isn’t always the most observant but even he commented that the separate male and female groups were so heteronormative that it must be difficult for lesbian couples.

Even though you're a woman, you're not one who has gone through what the mothers have.

I know you probably think this is really trivial, but the OP is a mother.