Ds expected to “help” another pupil with work in class

[LostFrog]

Ds is 9 years old, just started Year 5, first year of new school (middle school system here).

He tells me that when he has finished his own work in class, he is required to help a boy who sits next to him. This happens every single lesson, and he says that the boy is reluctant to work, won’t write anything, gives up quickly and mutters all the time that he doesn’t get it, etc. From asking around, this seems to be the standard on every table in the class - there is one or two pupils who are “learning mentors” who have to teach the less able ones.

Is this a) normal, and b) reasonable? It’s not like ds volunteered for this role. If he has finished, Shouldn’t he be offered an extension task whilst the teacher or TA (there is one, I checked) help the ones who are struggling? I have emailed the teacher to ask them to clarify what’s expected, but has anyone else come across this?

Tbh I don't really care how you do it.

What I would care about is making sure that my child is no longer being used to manage our dear Jaxx.

I agree that peer to peer work may well have some good outcomes in specific circumstances however, this is clearly not what is happening in the OP.

@iloveruby

Tbh I don't really care how you do it.

What I would care about is making sure that my child is no longer being used to manage our dear Jaxx.

I agree that peer to peer work may well have some good outcomes in specific circumstances however, this is clearly not what is happening in the OP.

Have you had a name change fail?

How should I teach the kids who are struggling if not through peer support? Or should I just ignore them and concentrate on the bright ones?

Are you a teacher then ?

This practice doesn’t reinforce concepts, teach kids empathy, or perform any of the miracles that some people claim. All it does is reinforce the divide between the high and low performing students. The students who grasp concepts quickly are already frustrated with the slow pace of the class. Explaining easy concepts to students who are the reason the class has to move so slowly is only going to breed resentment.

@Driftingblue

This practice doesn’t reinforce concepts, teach kids empathy, or perform any of the miracles that some people claim. All it does is reinforce the divide between the high and low performing students. The students who grasp concepts quickly are already frustrated with the slow pace of the class. Explaining easy concepts to students who are the reason the class has to move so slowly is only going to breed resentment.

That’s not true.

Happened to my son once with a boy with severe behavioural issues. My son would get into trouble for 'not stopping him'. I put a stop to it as it was beyond ridiculous.

I need to work with Jaxxon, how should I do it?

Well you're the teacher, you tell us. On the principle that into every life a little rain must fall, I would park Jaxxon beside each of the other 29 children in turn. Not just the OP's child or Peace's maths genius, but his equally uninterested twin Joxxon, Jaxette and dear little Anarchy, who unlike Jaxxon has a passion in life- for roaring sexually explicit jokes at the substitute teacher and setting fire to the desk. At least that's kind of fair.

@Driftingblue

This practice doesn’t reinforce concepts, teach kids empathy, or perform any of the miracles that some people claim. All it does is reinforce the divide between the high and low performing students. The students who grasp concepts quickly are already frustrated with the slow pace of the class. Explaining easy concepts to students who are the reason the class has to move so slowly is only going to breed resentment.

Effective peer work isn't about smart children teaching academically struggling children. The OP's example is not how it's supposed to work. Many posters have slated the practice based on assumptions or negative experiences. It's great when done properly.

Don’t you think it’s a bit interesting that you, an adult vet, struggled with the concept of relearning what 10 meant?

No. I don't think it's interesting, and like I said, I'm not even curious as to why I find it uninteresting and why I'm not really motivated to try. But like I said, to each his own. One of the joys of being an adult I suppose- if I can't be arsed to learn, that's a-ok. Makes up for the mandatory adult stuff that children don't have to deal with, like VAT returns and booking sodding in-contact covid tests when the class bubble bursts again.

No not had a name change fail.

I'm sure there are plenty of ways in which a good teacher can manage a mixed ability class so that all pupils have equitable opportunities to learn.

I just dont think that peer to peer is the only way to support struggling students and would expect any teacher worth their salt to have alternative methods.

@powershowerforanhour

I need to work with Jaxxon, how should I do it?

Well you're the teacher, you tell us. On the principle that into every life a little rain must fall, I would park Jaxxon beside each of the other 29 children in turn. Not just the OP's child or Peace's maths genius, but his equally uninterested twin Joxxon, Jaxette and dear little Anarchy, who unlike Jaxxon has a passion in life- for roaring sexually explicit jokes at the substitute teacher and setting fire to the desk. At least that's kind of fair.

You mean Anarchy and Joxxon won't be spending their time cultivating their new passion of counting using base 8? 😉

@Pumperthepumper

It was true for me as a student. It was true for my DH. It was true for many of my adult friends. We all left school with a distinct feeling that most of our classmates were severely lacking in intelligence. I’m trying to say it politely here because as an adult, I know that the very strong negative feelings about my fellow students I developed as a child were not accurate and that we all possess a wide variety of strengths and weaknesses. That doesn’t change the fact that I had them. It doesn’t change the fact that at least anecdotally, it appears to be very common for exceptionally bright students to develop those very strong negative feelings about their fellow students. Reinforcing the intellectual divide doesn’t help, especially when the school is already failing to meet the needs of the bright students.

This was reported by my son in year 5 too. I tried to focus on potential benefits for my son, rather than the fact that the struggling child was known to be a bully (I know my son has been a target) and have other behaviour problems. I then found myself having a word my son, when he started making scathing comments about the boy's lack of ability (to me). So not the best situation, I agree.

@powershowerforanhour

I need to work with Jaxxon, how should I do it?

Well you're the teacher, you tell us. On the principle that into every life a little rain must fall, I would park Jaxxon beside each of the other 29 children in turn. Not just the OP's child or Peace's maths genius, but his equally uninterested twin Joxxon, Jaxette and dear little Anarchy, who unlike Jaxxon has a passion in life- for roaring sexually explicit jokes at the substitute teacher and setting fire to the desk. At least that's kind of fair.

I have told you. That was in response to a op worrying about Jaxxon’s numeracy skills when he leaves school. I was hoping all these people who dislike peer learning would have a better idea.

Incidentally, what you’ve described above is peer learning. They don’t work with the same kid every time.

@iloveruby

No not had a name change fail.

I'm sure there are plenty of ways in which a good teacher can manage a mixed ability class so that all pupils have equitable opportunities to learn.

I just dont think that peer to peer is the only way to support struggling students and would expect any teacher worth their salt to have alternative methods.

It’s not the only way. And it’s not to support struggling students.

@Holskey

I'm a teacher. Getting students to teach each other is pretty much gold standard if done correctly. Your child's teacher isn't doing it correctly because: it's always one way; it's always the same child; the students aren't engaged or on board; and it's always the same, boring routine which is too general ("help Ben finish" is a crap instruction)

It's a lazy application of a very valuable and useful concept. And your child's teacher should ensure your ds knows he is not responsible for this other child's work or behaviour!

Agree. Peer to peer learning is very effective if person A learns about a subject, to teach person B, who then reciprocates. That is a world away from expecting a 9 year old to act as TA to a struggling and demotivated child.

I wouldn’t be happy about this.
Your DS is in school primarily for his own development and if he needs extension work then let it be something that helps him develop his knowledge and skills instead of having to motivate another child. He’s not your DS’ problem and I would have a word about this with the teacher/ school.

Sorry but I agree with PP that this sort of peer learning mixed ability stuff just made me think negatively about some of the people I went to school with. A nice but struggling child might not be so bad but being made to help a problem child isn't reasonable.

I was the youngest dc in infants school but had a lot of time off with childhood illnesses. When we went to Junior school I was put into the bottom third with the least capable. My dm complained but the HM said I'd missed a lot of school. By the first half term my teacher was giving me additional work as she didn't want me helping other pupils such as my friend who really struggled. It took 2 years for me to be in the top group.

This doesn't sound a good situation for either ds or the other pupil, ds is sitting there not learning whilst his fellow pupil is discouraged and not trying.

If you were interested in maths, and were good at it, and ten years old instead of a jaded adult - the idea that Jaxxon thought 4x8 is 33 would be fascinating to you

I can assure you my 10 year old DD2 certainly did not find it fascinating at all. She found Jaxxon irritating and slow.

@peaceanddove

If you were interested in maths, and were good at it, and ten years old instead of a jaded adult - the idea that Jaxxon thought 4x8 is 33 would be fascinating to you

I can assure you my 10 year old DD2 certainly did not find it fascinating at all. She found Jaxxon irritating and slow.

Maybe she’s not as good at maths as you think then.

No, she's probably even better - I haven't been able to understand the maths she does for a very long time.

Well, I was a very bright kid at school. There was a girl who was previously home schooled and couldn't read, so the teacher sat her with me to help. I also have a memory of taking a group of kids (same class) to the library to go through spellings. This was reception year. I don't think I enjoyed it at all. I was also very shy. I never remember telling my parents though but it was a different time and probably they would have been proud if anything.
Well I'm not sure if it was a bad thing in the long run. I'm about to complete my PhD and I guess I'm quite good at teaching and explaining things to others.

@peaceanddove

No, she's probably even better - I haven't been able to understand the maths she does for a very long time.

So what would you suggest we should do instead of peer support? You’ve convinced me - we’ll rip up decades of research and try something else.

What works? Should I focus all my attention on Jaxxon and give your daughter that extension worksheet you wanted? Or should I focus all my attention on your daughter, and Jaxxon can leave school numerically illiterate, and that’s just his tough luck?

Or should I pitch everything to the middle? Everyone equal?

What’s your solution?

I used to do this when I was at school. I enjoyed it though.

My DD does the same in class and she’s a similar age. She does loves teaching others so I’m sure she doesn’t mind being asked. She teaches her brother at home too and she’s great at explaining things and more patient than me!
I don’t mind.