Surrogacy makes me very uncomfortable

[HermioneKipper]

I was listening to Giovanna Fletcher’s podcast with H from Steps and hearing them talk about him using a surrogate for his twins made me feel very uncomfortable.

It’s essentially renting a woman’s body to buy a baby.

I understand the woman must’ve consented but she was paid and it doesn’t take into account the risk she was putting her body through. Pregnancy and childbirth is a huge strain on a woman’s body and she risks serious injury giving birth that she’ll have for life.

Even more so as she had twins which is even more dangerous.

And the babies taken away from their birth mother immediately. Who knows what harm it does to them.

It feels akin to the black market of buying and selling organs.

I know I have children so perhaps don’t have the right to comment but it doesn’t sit right with me.

And there's no changing that I will go down the surrogacy root to get my much wanted family.

Believe it or not, this thread isn't about you. Nor is it about individuals. It's a conversation about the ethics and principles that we decided to live by and how the surrogacy trade rubs up against them.

@Babyghirl

And there's no changing that I will go down the surrogacy root to get my much wanted family.

Exactly.

You will do whatever it takes to get what you want.

Exactly my point.

YANBU, paying surrogates is just a polite way of buying human babies. Humans have the right not to be bought and sold. You're correct to compare it to the black market for organs OP but imo it's worse. It blows my mind that people have such a blind spot for it.

Infertility is an awful and distressing experience... but nobody is entitled to a baby.

People saying "you don't have to be a surrogate so don't comment" - completely specious argument. As if you're not allowed to take a moral position on anything that doesn't directly affect you! I'm against human slavery even though I'm not a slave!

@Babyghirl

And there's no changing that I will go down the surrogacy root to get my much wanted family.

There isnt much you wouldn't turn a blind eye to then and you'd happily and knowingly harm others to get your child.

Including potentially that child itself.

Cos its all about getting what you want.

@Babyghirl

And there's no changing that I will go down the surrogacy root to get my much wanted family.

Then you've just shown your selfishness and immaturity when your stubbornness shows that you are not able to consider reasoned arguments against why it is abhorrent and wrong.

And that's your choice to make @Babyghirl because right now trading human beings is absolutely allowed.

Surrogacy is very much favoured by the privileged.

People saying "you don't have to be a surrogate so don't comment" - completely specious argument. As if you're not allowed to take a moral position on anything that doesn't directly affect you! I'm against human slavery even though I'm not a slave!

I'm against paedophilia but I don't challenge this by not being a paedophile. Heard of safeguarding being everyone's responsibility?

Women who haven't ever been pregnant can have a position on surrogacy. Women who don't want children can have a position on surrogacy. As can men.

I haven't ever been a political dictator but I'd have something to say if I lived under a dictatorship. I haven't ever had cancer but can sympathise with someone who has.

We are not robots, though justifying by this thread, it might be better for some if we were. Robots without thoughts, feelings or morals, who are able to pop out babies for those who want them. Form an orderly queue.

Hermione, I think surrogacy makes most people uncomfortable.

@Plumtree391

Hermione, I think surrogacy makes most people uncomfortable.

I'll be honest and say until this thread I'd never put much thought into the whole process. Nor did I realise it was big business in certain countries or how exploited those women are.

I'd always pictured a Western woman getting treated like a queen.

You have children. So yes, you cannot really comment. I had years of fertility issues and looked at all options, obviously coming across information on surrogacy. I was fortunate enough to have a child via IVF in the end. I will never forgot the heartache, longing and fears of never becoming a mum. I would be a surrogate, and it would be ridiculous of you to think a grown woman is not able to weigh up the risks of a pregnancy and child birth. Personally, I wouldn't want to use my own eggs, I would want an embryo implanted, but I do applaud women who donate eggs or do surrogacy with their own eggs. A parent is more than biology (if the parent has no biological link to the baby - in the UK at least one of the parents has to have a link), I know, I'm adopted. Families come in all forms, and the most important thing is the baby is loved. There are many kids out there missing out on love and basics, even with biological link!!

@BeenAroundTheWorldAndIII by that logic you can't comment either as you have a child.

It's ridiculous to say who can and cannot have an opinion on something.

I don't agree with it.

@longerevenings

I had fertility issues as well as working in Child Protection.

I understand the deep desire to have dc, but that doesn't make surrogacy ok.

Only in your opinion it doesn't make surrogacy ok. I'm my opinion it does make surrogacy ok. It isn't against the law, although obviously regulated. So actually, that makes surrogacy ok, even if you say it isn't 🤷🏼‍♀️

I would be a surrogate, and it would be ridiculous of you to think a grown woman is not able to weigh up the risks of a pregnancy and child birth

The trouble is the risks that they might not think about, like the surrogate who was left holding the baby when the couple split up. What happens with a disabled child, what happens is the parents die, aren't able to come for the baby.
You can guarantee that the risk management in international surrogacy are not in the surrogates favour.
What happens when women a forced into it? Plenty of women end up in abusive relationships in the UK how do we know women elsewhere aren't effectively being pimped?

@BeenAroundTheWorldAndIII

You have children. So yes, you cannot really comment. I had years of fertility issues and looked at all options, obviously coming across information on surrogacy. I was fortunate enough to have a child via IVF in the end. I will never forgot the heartache, longing and fears of never becoming a mum. I would be a surrogate, and it would be ridiculous of you to think a grown woman is not able to weigh up the risks of a pregnancy and child birth. Personally, I wouldn't want to use my own eggs, I would want an embryo implanted, but I do applaud women who donate eggs or do surrogacy with their own eggs. A parent is more than biology (if the parent has no biological link to the baby - in the UK at least one of the parents has to have a link), I know, I'm adopted. Families come in all forms, and the most important thing is the baby is loved. There are many kids out there missing out on love and basics, even with biological link!!

Oh God, this is marketing spiel 101. Families in different forms ...yeah, that's just like commissioning a baby via another women's womb. Emotionally charged personal narratives trying to circumnavigate the unease of getting at a baby via sales of goods contracts.

It's route.

Had to be said.

Families come in all forms, and the most important thing is the baby is loved.

I'm not sure that's all a baby need tbh. I think we should consider what happens when that baby grows up and becomes an adult wanting to start a family. Children in the U.K. who can find their genetic parents can only do so when they reach 18. As the anonymity ban was lifted in 2005, these children haven't reached the age of 18 yet (thought some have found genetic family through 23andMe and other DNA testing websites). I think we should consider a baby a whole human being and what their needs are at all throughout their life.

fb.watch/836zqaU59D/

I do applaud women who donate eggs or do surrogacy with their own eggs.

stopsurrogacynowuk.org/2021/08/20/egg-donation-and-surrogacy-guest-post-from-kat-howard-radfem_kath-short-read/

I'd always pictured a Western woman getting treated like a queen.

Sadly there are many examples of how this isn't the case. See these:

nordicmodelnow.org/2020/01/29/i-was-an-altruistic-surrogate-and-am-now-against-all-surrogacy/

It isn't against the law, although obviously regulated

I've been wondering about this. Does regulating it sanction the process? (Like Holbeck and 'sex work', look how that turned out).

abolition-ms.org/en/statutes/

@Lockdownbear

I would be a surrogate, and it would be ridiculous of you to think a grown woman is not able to weigh up the risks of a pregnancy and child birth

The trouble is the risks that they might not think about, like the surrogate who was left holding the baby when the couple split up. What happens with a disabled child, what happens is the parents die, aren't able to come for the baby.
You can guarantee that the risk management in international surrogacy are not in the surrogates favour.
What happens when women a forced into it? Plenty of women end up in abusive relationships in the UK how do we know women elsewhere aren't effectively being pimped?

They are. What is happening to women in india, for example, is appalling. But never mind, as long as rich white people can buy babies, eh.

www.theguardian.com/global-development/2016/apr/01/outsourcing-pregnancy-india-surrogacy-clinics-julie-bindel

@Babyghirl

And there's no changing that I will go down the surrogacy root to get my much wanted family.

So even though it exploits both the surrogate mother and the child your wish for a 'much wanted family' comes first.

No human cost too great so long as your wish is granted.

Oh God, this is marketing spiel 101. Families in different forms hmm...yeah, that's just like commissioning a baby via another women's womb. Emotionally charged personal narratives trying to circumnavigate the unease of getting at a baby via sales of goods contracts.

Ah j'adore

Only in your opinion it doesn't make surrogacy ok. I'm my opinion it does make surrogacy ok. It isn't against the law, although obviously regulated. So actually, that makes surrogacy ok, even if you say it isn't 🤷🏼‍♀️

The vast majority of posters on here think surrogacy is not OK.
Just because something is not currently illegal does not mean that people should not lobby for it to be made illegal.

The most important thing is NOT love. Women have babies removed all the time, not through lack of love. My love is very different from another person's love.

alllifeturnsonadime
Babyghirl

And there's no changing that I will go down the surrogacy root to get my much wanted family.

............

So even though it exploits both the surrogate mother and the child your wish for a 'much wanted family' comes first.

No human cost too great so long as your wish is granted.
............

Yes, it is selfish. I really do sympathise with people who are infertile but there should be limits as to how far they go to have a baby. There are other things in life and opportunities often open up for childless people, which make life worthwhile.