Page 14 | Surrogacy makes me very uncomfortable

HermioneKipper · 2021-09-14T22:34:16+00:00

I was listening to Giovanna Fletcher’s podcast with H from Steps and hearing them talk about him using a surrogate for his twins made me feel very uncomfortable. It’s essentially renting a woman’s body to buy a baby. I understand the woman must’ve consented but she was paid and it doesn’t take into account the risk she was putting her body through. Pregnancy and childbirth is a huge strain on a woman’s body and she risks serious injury giving birth that she’ll have for life. Even more so as she had twins which is even more dangerous. And the babies taken away from their birth mother immediately. Who knows what harm it does to them. It feels akin to the black market of buying and selling organs. I know I have children so perhaps don’t have the right to comment but it doesn’t sit right with me.

RedToothBrush · 15/09/2021 19:32

[quote MayorGoodwaysChicken]@lynntheyresexpeople if anyone has been upset by this thread perhaps they aren’t quite as comfortable with what they have chosen to do as they may like to think. Surely anyone who is confident that surrogacy is morally decent and has no detrimental effects on the baby or the birth mother, shouldn’t be upset?

What gives people the right to have other peoples’ opinions silenced just because they don’t like being called out?[/quote]
Quite.

If you think you've done nothing morally wrong, why get upset about you doing nothing wrong.

Unless of course it hits a nerve.

MayorGoodwaysChicken · 15/09/2021 19:32

Dreadful
but we talked about it, this risk, because we aren’t stupid. We took out life insurance for her (has to be taken out at least from memory 6 months pre pregnancy)
She also made clear her son would go to his father who knew what was happening and had spoken to all her family members
She’s not an idiot. Had been thru pregnancy and made her offer with all this thought out.

This doesn’t reflect well on either of you. I feel sorry for her poor son that she was prepared to take this risk. I wonder how he’ll feel about that when he grows up.

I think we will have to agree to disagree on this, you’re obviously comfortable with it because it’s worked out for you. I will never think this is ok.

habibihabibi · 15/09/2021 19:35

In Ukraine criminal gangs are behind some of the seemingly glossy and professional surrogacy clinics. Women are trafficked and groomed to participate. Women "too old" for lucrative prostitution fall into the surrogacy trap to earn money to pay debt or just to line a pimps pockets.
It is totally shady and I bet it goes on in other countries too.
I get that people want babies but its the cost to others I object to and its something that they ignore to get what they want.

DeepaBeesKit · 15/09/2021 19:37

I think there's a difference between surrogacy between family members/close friends, no money involved, and paid -for surrogacy which risks attracting desperate, vulnerable women.

I had some fertility issues. No problem with eggs/sperm just with carrying to term. and my sister told me at one point that if we needed it, she would carry a baby for me (she had had two kids already with smooth low risk pregnancies). In the end I didnt need it but it meant a huge amount to me. If roles were reversed I would have offered her the same. I dont see any issue with this form of surrogacy.

For the type involving money etc, I think there has to be a massive amount of regulation to ensure protection against abuse for both sides. There are plenty of women out there who do genuinely enjoy pregnancy and are altruistically movitated to want to enable another family, in the same way people undergo difficult procedures to donate blood, bone marrow, kidneys, spend months pumping breast milk to donate, donate their eggs & sperm etc.

DeepaBeesKit · 15/09/2021 19:38

Btw my opinion relates to surrogacy where the carrier is carrying a child where eggs & sperm have come from the parents not the surrogate.

Babyghirl · 15/09/2021 19:39

All these people saying what if anything happened to the one carrying the baby if they had kids themselves,
Do yous think people think like that when they go on to have 4 or 5 kids,
Unless people have infertility issues and the want for a family of your own yous will never know that feeling.
Round off applause to the ladies that managed that family on there own without any issues can't really blame ladies for taking any avenue to get what yous managed without trouble.

flipflop76 · 15/09/2021 19:40

A friend of mine had a surrogate who was a close friend. My friend had gone through several rounds of IVF and had miscarriages (she's only early 30s) and this was the last resort with her remaining frozen embryo. The baby has no genetic link to the surrogate as it was my friend's egg and husband's sperm but the surrogate merely carried the baby for her.

QOD · 15/09/2021 19:40

But did it affect her ? She was very calm and settled as a newborn (and gorgeous and squishy)
How do we know ?

My friend I met later in life adopted 2 babies. 1 was removed at birth and spent 9 weeks withdrawing from drugs in NICU. No parent visiting obvs just nurses paid to care for him. Then to foster care where he had an idyllic 11 months with an older couple who adored him. He was so so loved by them and the older fosters
THEN he was adopted at 15 mths
He is 19 now. Homeless. Chucked out of army for drugs. Soooo un qualified as he was so angry and rebellious
FAS and attachment disorder plus I’ve forgotten the exact name ‘opposition disorder’ finally diagnosed at nearly adult

His young sister (adopted non bio related) was a relinquished baby. She was in foster care until 5 months and seems unscathed ((15 now) BUT when she is 18 (or is it younger?) she is entitled to her file that says her birth mum was raped, very young, hid her pregnancy, refused to see her at all from delivery and made it very clear she was unwanted - dfriend is trying to prepare her for that without actually saying all that. It’s just sad
Why’s she not going to be be vastly more affected than my daughter who knows she is here because she was so so so wanted ? She wasn’t given away or sold by her birth mum. She’d not have ever existed. 🤷🏻‍♀️

Honestly I do genuinely see some of the anti points. I do!
But I also see the terrible things inflicted on unwanted children - or not even unwanted but uncared For, abused children who hav e terrible things inflicted on them because their birth mum
Can pop out babies at ease.

You know what i mean?

QOD · 15/09/2021 19:43

@MayorGoodwaysChicken

*Dreadful but we talked about it, this risk, because we aren’t stupid. We took out life insurance for her (has to be taken out at least from memory 6 months pre pregnancy) She also made clear her son would go to his father who knew what was happening and had spoken to all her family members She’s not an idiot. Had been thru pregnancy and made her offer with all this thought out.*

This doesn’t reflect well on either of you. I feel sorry for her poor son that she was prepared to take this risk. I wonder how he’ll feel about that when he grows up.

I think we will have to agree to disagree on this, you’re obviously comfortable with it because it’s worked out for you. I will never think this is ok.

He’s 30 and happy as Larry, has 3 half sisters and a half brother thru his dad who just cannot keep it in his pants 🙄. All his dads kids have different mums He and dd follow each other on Instagram and vaguely have same eye shape but dd is all her dad otherwise

SJWsAtItAgain · 15/09/2021 20:04

if anyone has been upset by this thread perhaps they aren’t quite as comfortable with what they have chosen to do as they may like to think. Surely anyone who is confident that surrogacy is morally decent and has no detrimental effects on the baby or the birth mother, shouldn’t be upset?

Utter tosh!
Setting the pro and anti on the side for a quick second. Are you saying that you believe people who're upset would only be because they feel guilty and not because they hate that someone is on their high horse judging them unfairly?

Would you think the same if people were upset when others judge them for having 3,4,5+ children - are they upset because they aren't confident in their decision? What about those who're upset on a thread where posters are judging them for having only 1 child? What about those who went through IVF? Those who had an abortion? Stay-at-home parents? Working parents? Those who've gone nc with their family? The list could go on regarding what people virtue-signal about.

Would they all be upset because they're uncomfortable and unsure of their decision? If not, what is it about this particular one that made you state this assumption? Is it simply because you have your opinion and you believe them to be right in ALL situations?

TheRebelle · 15/09/2021 20:09

I could never do it because I would worry about the baby every day, I wouldn’t be able to live with myself if I found out the people I gave the baby to had abused them or not looked after them properly, and even if it’s a small risk that would happen it’s not a risk I could take in good conscience.

MayorGoodwaysChicken · 15/09/2021 20:10

I guess I just find surrogacy such an immoral act that I struggle to comprehend how anyone could ever NOT feel guilty for it @SJWsAtItAgain

If you want to call it virtue signalling to stand up for the rights of vulnerable women and babies then fine, whatever fits your narrative. I’ll continue to believe that surrogacy is immoral and unethical. Just like other forms of human trafficking, urban farming etc.

MayorGoodwaysChicken · 15/09/2021 20:10

Organ, not urban.

SorryAuntLydia · 15/09/2021 20:11

This reply has been deleted

Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk guidelines.

rhonddacynontaf · 15/09/2021 20:12

@flipflop76

A friend of mine had a surrogate who was a close friend. My friend had gone through several rounds of IVF and had miscarriages (she's only early 30s) and this was the last resort with her remaining frozen embryo. The baby has no genetic link to the surrogate as it was my friend's egg and husband's sperm but the surrogate merely carried the baby for her.

You don't 'merely' carry a baby though, do you?

JacquelineCarlyle · 15/09/2021 20:19

YANBU Op, surrogacy is abhorrent and should be outlawed everywhere. The way H talked about trying to get them out of hospital as soon as possible to keep the costs down with no mention of the birth mother and how she was doing at all after having just given birth to twins (!!) was even more disgusting.

SJWsAtItAgain · 15/09/2021 20:19

If you want to call it virtue signalling to stand up for the rights of vulnerable women and babies then fine, whatever fits your narrative. I’ll continue to believe that surrogacy is immoral and unethical. Just like other forms of human trafficking, urban farming etc

The things is that people lump it all in one box. Surrogacy isn't automatically trampling the rights of vulnerable women and children. It really isn't and for people to just conflate the two, with words like selling wombs and buying babies, is quite nasty and disrespectful to those who've done this in a way that is anything but.

By all means, let's all stand up for vulnerable children and women in the surrogacy industry, employment industry, sex industry, entertainment industry, families, religion, etc. They're everywhere and no one is 'for' that.

So it is virtue-signalling to think lumping the two together and declaring "No to all" makes you morally superior because you can't see the nuance in it.

Mickarooni · 15/09/2021 20:21

@Babyghirl

All these people saying what if anything happened to the one carrying the baby if they had kids themselves, Do yous think people think like that when they go on to have 4 or 5 kids, Unless people have infertility issues and the want for a family of your own yous will never know that feeling. Round off applause to the ladies that managed that family on there own without any issues can't really blame ladies for taking any avenue to get what yous managed without trouble.

@Babyghirl

I have mixed emotions on surrogacy but I wanted to pick up on your comment on taking “any Avenue”. Where do you draw the line? Perhaps other people draw the line differently to you…?

spicedappledonuts · 15/09/2021 20:24

Unless people have infertility issues and the want for a family of your own yous will never know that feeling.

I do know this feeling.

It doesn't make human trafficking ok.
It doesn't make creating a situation where the wants of an adult are put before the welfare of a new born baby ok.

Adults need to adult and that means accepting some things you really want may not happen.

SJWsAtItAgain · 15/09/2021 20:25

I guess I just find surrogacy such an immoral act that I struggle to comprehend how anyone could ever NOT feel guilty for it

That's you and that's fine. You can find anything abhorrent if you like. There are many things some people find immoral too that others do. Doesn't necessarily make them wrong, so why should they feel guilty? That's just you projecting what you think they should feel.

Pretty sure some do feel guilty but some don't. Both would have their reasons.

stitchy · 15/09/2021 20:25

There should be some sort of a rule where surrogate mothers have to be equally as wealthy or more so than the people they're having the baby for so that poor women aren't taken advantage of. There should be equality between both sides.

Having had two babies and experienced the physical and emotional toll it takes I would 100x rather sell (or have my expenses met) giving a kidney to someone than carry a baby. But selling organs is illegal.

RedToothBrush · 15/09/2021 20:25

The things is that people lump it all in one box. Surrogacy isn't automatically trampling the rights of vulnerable women and children. It really isn't and for people to just conflate the two, with words like selling wombs and buying babies, is quite nasty and disrespectful to those who've done this in a way that is anything but.

Yes. Yes it is.

ALL surrogacy is deeply problematic.

No exceptions.

lifeturnsonadime · 15/09/2021 20:27

No one has a a right to a baby.

It is child trafficking and is deeply misogynistic.

Like the sex industry no woman really has free choice.

Babyghirl · 15/09/2021 20:35

@Mickarooni
When I know I have tryed every avanue to get my much wanted baby, but as I say I will be using someone I know with my own egg and dp sperm so not really buying a baby.

I just think people need to walk in the shoes of someone who is going through infertility to understand how it feels.

It's all well in good when you have not struggled to have kids and never have to have that talk.

I don't believe in it if it's just for money but for a friend or family doing it to make someones dream happen is a different story.

spicedappledonuts · 15/09/2021 20:45

so not really buying a baby
If you are exchanging money without which there would be no baby then you are buying a baby.

Infertility is really hard, the want for a baby overwhelming and at times visceral.

But trafficking in humans is wrong.