The farmer wants a wife

[Anothermothernamegame]

DD 4yo has just started reception, and has been singing this song, which they have taught her.

'The farmer wants a wife... The wife wants a child etc'.

AIBU to think this is a really old fashioned, and fairly sexist song to be teaching kids?

Just for the record, it's a fairly "progressive" school in a fairly "progressive" and sought after neighbourhood.

...and no, I don't usually have a stick up my arse, so might well be overreacting.

Speaking as apparently a crazed feminist I wouldn't be fussed.

Loads of nursery rhymes are dodgy.
With those songs most people sing the words without really thinking much if at all on the meaning.

Loads of nursery rhymes are old and a bit odd. It's carrying on things from the past though handed down to generations of children.

Frere Jacques too much religion?
London bridge a few interpretations the version I learnt when I randomly chatted with DD the most of obvious one is it's about someone in debt being executed.
Jack and Jill WTF is that about very peculiar
Round and round the roses again many interpretations the plague one is quite common
Then there's fairy tales Hans Christian Andersen stuff which watered down the very dark originals. But have a focus on all sorts of awful stuff.

Any worse than the Disney messages in some of their recent fairy tale films?

When I was a child I found the background / whatever interpretation of the words sung very surprising. It's an opportunity to talk about history if you wish including meanings and what life was like then. I mean if it comes up and they're the right age.

Sorry OP no.

My only compliant about farmer wants a wife is it's imo a really boring song!

@Drummerboy12

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Wowzers, aren't you a charmer!

@Embroidery did you think cock horse meant the mans hung like a horse?

@dannydyerismydad

I could never get my head around everyone patting the bone at the end. Why not pat the dog?

I bloody hated being the bone and being slapped around the head.

Definitely this

I'd like a friendswithbenefitsfarmer

@Onesipmore

For crying out loud its a bloody nursery rhyme. Amazed you would have the time to even be fretting about this.

This

@Embroidery

Ride a cock horse to Banbury Cross, To see a fine lady upon a white horse; Rings on her fingers and bells on her toes, And she shall have music wherever she goes Source: Musixmatch

This one's far ruder. The ladies at baby group couldnt believe it was so rude and had it banned. Genuinely. ( ride a c**k and the sex work implied)

Please tell me this is a joke? No one can actually be this dim.

Good wheels of a bus is fucking awful.

Text
Teach her oranges and lemons and Frere jacque and sing rounds with her and if others in household see if they will join in.
It's more fun than you think! And sounds good even if none of you can sing well, the tune is v mid range.

I even got DH to join in (with massive reluctance) but the kids loved it when they were little!

@NiceGerbil doesn't oranges and lemons end with something about chopping off your head?

Dim?

Why is that dim? I don't know the origins of that one.

Why would it not be about prostitution? I mean I don't know but why assume not?

@NiceGerbil

Dim?

Why is that dim? I don't know the origins of that one.

Why would it not be about prostitution? I mean I don't know but why assume not?

Eh? Why assume it is is just as valid a question?!

@Onesipmore

For crying out loud its a bloody nursery rhyme. Amazed you would have the time to even be fretting about this.

Do you sing songs about slavery to your children? I hope you’re not fretting about racism.

@NiceGerbil

Dim?

Why is that dim? I don't know the origins of that one.

Why would it not be about prostitution? I mean I don't know but why assume not?

Call me over-cautious, if you will, but I might spend 10 seconds on Google before getting a mother-toddler group to ban a nursery rhyme on the basis of a misunderstanding.

Cock horse was often used as a term for a fine spirited horse, or a spare horse that was used for an extra pull to get a carriage up a hill. In later times (around 16 century type later times ) it also was used to mean hobbyhorse, or another child's pretend horse, such as an adult's knee.

And in Scotland they push grannies of buses

A cock horse is a phrase that comes from around the 15th century. It can mean a high-spirited horse, though it can also mean an entire or uncastrated horse. A cock horse may also refer to the additional horse to assist pulling a cart or carriage up a hill. From the mid-sixteenth century it came to mean a pretend horse, or hobby horse, too – or an adult’s knee (presumably something which is sat upon).

Nobody quite knows who the fine lady of the rhyme is, though speculation has pointed towards Queen Elizabeth I, Lady Godiva, and Celia Fiennes, whose brother was William Fiennes, 3rd Viscount Saye and Sele of Broughton Castle, Banbury (hence ‘fine’ lady).

The horse’s identity also remains unconfirmed, probably because he was embarrassed about his nickname.

metro.co.uk/2018/03/29/cock-horse-banbury-7425571/

[quote girlmom21]@NiceGerbil doesn't oranges and lemons end with something about chopping off your head? [/quote]
This is the version I learnt when young never thought about the lyrics at all. Chatting to DD on a walk I was like well that's not exactly a hidden message! How did I not realise! Obv about execution for non payment of debt.

There are other earlier versions with different lyrics we looked it up when got home. Think it changed over the years depending on what was going on iyswim.

'Oranges and lemons
Say the bells of St Clement's
You owe me five farthings
Say the bells of St Martin's
When will you pay me?
Say the bells of Old Bailey
When I grow rich
Say the bells of Shoreditch
And when will that be?
Say the bells of Stepney
Oh I do not know
Say the great bells of Bow
Here comes a candle
To light you to bed
And here comes a chopper
To chop off your head'

@apalledandshocked is it weird that I can’t tell if that’s a nursery rhyme or a genuine thing

Get over it, it's a nursery rhyme, no one's getting hurt

@mangowithasqueezeoflime

I am very confused with this dog and bone thing!

Where I grew up the dog picks a cat, the cat picks a rat and the rat picks a cheese.

Then...

"The cheese stands alone, the cheese stands alone. Hi ho the dairy-o, the cheese stands alone"

F that patting business!

Thank you for posting that! I was avid to know how we got from all patting the bone to the cheese stands alone. Mumsnet delivers the goods again!

And 'cock' comes from cockerel which is onomatopeia. The aforementioned fowl is cocksure and cocky, with his cockscomb held aloft.

That’s not what onomatopeia means.

MaskingFruit I can't think of any but most people don't think about the lyrics at all and that's pretty normal probably.

Even with pop music I never considered the lyrics esp when young. Now I'm older I've realised loads are awful so in a way I wish I hadn't thought about it!

Anyway that's an aside I can't think of any doesn't mean I don't know any.

Can you give some examples? DD and I went down a bit of a history nursery rhyme rabbit hole the other week and it was really interesting. So would be really interested in which ones. DD would be really interested as well and we'd end up learning all sorts of history looking into it on net.

In our version the dog wants a bone. Dogs want what dogs want 🤷🏻‍♀️

"the formation of a word from a sound associated with what is named, e.g. cuckoo"

So cockerel is onomatopeia, because that's the sound it makes.