The farmer wants a wife

[Anothermothernamegame]

DD 4yo has just started reception, and has been singing this song, which they have taught her.

'The farmer wants a wife... The wife wants a child etc'.

AIBU to think this is a really old fashioned, and fairly sexist song to be teaching kids?

Just for the record, it's a fairly "progressive" school in a fairly "progressive" and sought after neighbourhood.

...and no, I don't usually have a stick up my arse, so might well be overreacting.

Or maybe she's a Fascist...

They're a Fascist?

"Brown girl in the ring" likewise.

Not in the Caribbean! We're black/brown and love it but yes I suppose it would be a bit odd sung in the UK outside of certain groups

@NiceGerbil

Fox went out on a chilly night?

Never heard that one!

There is probably a generational thing in this I suspect as well?

Anyone remember i found a peanut? 🤣🤣🤣

Fox went out one chilly night Prayed to the moon to give him light He'd many a mile to go that night Before he reached the town-o, town-o, town-o He'd many a mile to go that night Before he reached the town-o

It goes on to describe him getting the goose, the woman yells to her husband that the grey goose is gone, he goes home to his Missus and their ten kids and have a slap up meal whilst the little ones chew on the bones-o.

It's from a 15th Century poem and there have been multiple versions recorded (because it's a folk song, that's what they do), but we had teachers who were very keen on folk traditions and ensuring we knew useful country things such as being able to identify different breeds of sheep and cattle along with crops, the countryside code, how to approach animals/avoiding going into fields with cows and staying away from machinery, as well as the dreaded Country Dancing lessons and a very large number of other folk songs. I think our teachers spent a lot of their budget at Cecil Sharp House.

@Georgyporky

I don't know whether it's still sung in schools, but "All things bright & beautiful" is outrageous.

The rich man in his castle,
The poor man at his gate,
He made them, high or lowly,
And ordered their estate.

So God is an aristocratic Tory bastard ?

I think that verse has been left out in updated versions.

I think you are over-thinking it. Or perhaps underthinking it. I mean, how do we all know that the farmer isn't female/trans/a polygamist? The song doesn't specify. They could be gerting that baby via IVF or surrougacy. They may even decide not to get the baby afterall because of global warming or overpopulation, who knows!

What bugs me at my daughters nursery is that they teach the first verse as 'the farmer is in the den'. When I was at school, it wss definitely 'the farmer is in the dell'.

@beansprout55

Why shouldn't the male farmer want a female wife? Your observation is so so sexist and doesn't come from a good place. There is nothing wrong with a man being heterosexual! Most songs you hear on the radio are about men lusting after women or vice versa - I suspect you'll be complaining to the radio stations and record companies next? I suppose you won't let your children hear any musics with lyrics either. Good grief.

This may be many things, but it isn't sexist 😂

The heterosexual men are ok

@CoronaPeroni

The one I always hated was Soldier, Soldier won't you marry me? She pleads with him to marry her and there's always some excuse, no coat, no shoes etc so she fannies around finding them and then at the end he can't marry her because he's already married!! I hate him. Always have done, always will.

Maybe there's an important lesson in there somewhere though :) An old fashioned version of "He's just not that into you"

@NiceGerbil

Wasn't brown girl in the ring a boney m song?

I didn't know it was a nursery rhyme. Never heard it sung as one. Don't know about anyone else?

Bony M sang it, but just like 'Mary's Boy Child' the songs originated in the Caribbean. They just profited from it 🙃

I grew up singing the song as a nursery rhyme in school, we'd all form a circle and take turns in the middle. It's still played at weddings as well with the bride in the middle

And we also sung Mary's Boy Child at church! Never heard of Bony M until I moved to the UK as an adult

@NeverDropYourMooncup - I go ceilidh dancing a lot. Cecil Sharp House is ceilidh central for London!

@Jaysmith71

If we take the case of a tailor's shop, there would be one tailor, and his assistants, who also tailed, but weren't the proprietor.

Similarly, the "Farmer" is the owner, lessee or tenant whose name is on the deeds. Other members of his family would also farm, but there was only one "Farmer."

Normally the length of a tenancy would be dependant on the lifespan of the tenant - so a farmer would be granted the leasehold to the land until he died BUT if he married etc he could then negotiate to add his wife to the leasehold as well so the leasehold would last for as long as one of them lived, and when they had children it was common to negotiate to add at least one to the leasehold - effectively ensuring it was passed on.... Maybe that's what the songs actually about?

Coming from a farming background I don’t think farmers have ever actually bought a wife in UK. Married money yes, openly bought no.

[quote MrsToothyBitch]@NeverDropYourMooncup - I go ceilidh dancing a lot. Cecil Sharp House is ceilidh central for London![/quote]
I went to one organised by a friend once as moral support. When I got there, she'd lost her voice and couldn't do more than a tiny whisper, so didn't know what she was going to do.

The band started up and 40-odd years and 15 seconds after my last stripping the willow, guess who is confidently calling for the rest of the night whilst dancing as well ? Yup.

That country stuff gets right in your bones.

@icedcoffees

The farmer could be female!

Exactly- and the original post was unconscious bias immediately assuming the farmer was male

This is just a nursery rhyme and a bit of fun

@Jaysmith71

Georgy Porgey Puddeny Pie, who kissed the girls and made them cry, was the philandering Prince Regent.

Oh forgot that one.

I don't like that at all.

Georgie peorgie pudding and pie
Kissed the girls and made them cry
When the boys came out to play
Georgie peorgie ran away!

Thank you for the info-

NeverDropYourMooncup and MolyHolyGuacamole!

V interesting.

She's 4. End of.

@MintyGreenDream and @AngeloMysterioso and probably more,

the story about Baa Baa Black Sheep being banned and replaced with a rainbow sheep is pure myth.

"Baa Baa ‘Rainbow’ Sheep
The myth: Teachers have been banned from singing ‘Baa Baa Black Sheep’ in schools because it has been deemed racist towards black people.
The truth: A couple of nurseries in Oxfordshire decided to make the song longer and more stimulating for children by replacing ‘black’ with a range of other adjectives."

pcgonemadgonemad.wordpress.com/2011/10/16/hello-world/?fbclid=IwAR3vmlkzXqJbn1O41ZQsu767sNYeJlxP1of7WL_6PCmjdhZEGP0Q3H2XjAE

Is this the farmer in the dell? Because the lyrics are the farmer takes a wife, the wife takes a child, the child takes a dog, and so on. Still not exactly 2021 values but as bad as you’ve made it sound.

Not as bad as you’ve made it sound.

I can remember a dinner lady doing up the buttons on my coat and touching them one by one saying "Tinker, tailor, soldier, spy, rich man, poor man, beggar man... Ooh, you're going to marry a beggar man!" Bet they don't do that now.

I'm being eaten by a boa constrictor.

Please tell me that when I sing "Three little monkeys jumping on the bed" to my DGD, that song is about, y'know... actual monkeys.

You lot have got me worried about the background of all these songs now!

That's good news then.I thought the world really had gone mad.