To think faith schools should be forced to change their application process?

[storminborehamwood]

Most people accept that you can't discriminate against someone for their religion. So why can faith schools do it when it comes to kids getting a place?

AIBU to think state-funded faith schools should be forced to remove religious criteria from applications?

I know state-funded faith schools get extra funding from religion and that supposedly justifies giving priority to kids with religious ties.

I just can't understand why it's illegal to mark someone down for a job application based on their religion, but it's okay to do it for a school application.

You could also argue that the criteria of nearest to a school discriminates against those on lower incomes. Names out of a hat would be fairer.

People can meet with people who share their own beliefs, should political parties let anyone who doesn't share their views in as members in order to be inclusive?

Ridiculous comparison that isn’t relevant to state schools. I don’t share the Tory party views but could, right now, go onto their website, pay my £25 and I’d be a member. No check on my views.
And besides, being a member of a political party is optional, kids have to be educated.

I totally agree with the OP.

If faith schools stopped being able to prioritise students from that faith then the funding that comes for the school from the religion wokld soon be stopped so it would have a negative impact overall.

Personally I am no fan of faith schools and even though I am C of E actively avoided faith school for ds when selecting his school. But I don’t think the school system would be any better if we changed the admission criteria for them.

Names out of a hat would be fairer.

How does this work in practical terms though?

I understand in inner city oversubscribed areas it might work. What happens if your name comes out in a school 3 miles away and 60 mins on public transport, when you have a school over the road? That's crazy and not helpful for anyone.

There's no perfect system.

I agree that there is no perfect system. Every system is problematic.

I've read through this thread and it seems like most people don't understand that at a religious school, you actively practice the relation on a daily basis and this is why they are open only to children of that religion.

It isn't comparable to a Christian only GP practice

I went to a Christian school as my family are Christians. We had to pray in the morning, took part in church services, the religious lessons were more catered around bible study, had a Chapel to attend, took communion.

I'm not religious now, but if you're living a very Christian lifestyle, your life can revolve around your faith and that is why my school was like that.

I don't think it would have been suitable for a child of no religion, or a Muslim or Jew to be sat in communion with me.

I don't think it would be enjoyable either!

But for the most part, I don't think the schools aren't letting your children in to be horrible and discriminatory. I think they just want to practice their beliefs without your non religious child taking a place.

I also remember a teacher telling me that Christian parents who had the discipline to attend church every Sunday (we were only allowed to miss 2 Sundays a year to get into my school) were seen as better families to have at the school, because they would push their children harder, be more committed to school events, stuff like that!

I won't be sending my daughter to a religious school, just as a side note. We're not a religious family, I don't want her having to sit through church services if she doesn't want to.

So many typos, sorry, it's 6.30am!

It is disgraceful. If a school is tax funded it shouldn't use church membership as an admission criteria.

@willow19c no, someone turning up to church regulary does not make them a better parent. By and large it's someone bought up in X religion who 'rediscovers' their faith when their first child is born and are playing the system as they believe faith is best. The schools are self selective.

I know a woman whose son went to a well regarded RC school in the area. She was terribly smug and 'we are in the club and you aren't' . Not very Christian. DS got a place as he has an EHCP despite us not being Catholic. She was when I told her which demonstrates everything wrong with this divisive, excluding system and the motives of many involved. .Religion should not be part of the school day, it should be a family matter. I really don't see why anyone needs to practice a faith at school. You can pray at home.

[quote Matilda82]@willow19c no, someone turning up to church regulary does not make them a better parent. By and large it's someone bought up in X religion who 'rediscovers' their faith when their first child is born and are playing the system as they believe faith is best. The schools are self selective.

I know a woman whose son went to a well regarded RC school in the area. She was terribly smug and 'we are in the club and you aren't' . Not very Christian. DS got a place as he has an EHCP despite us not being Catholic. She was when I told her which demonstrates everything wrong with this divisive, excluding system and the motives of many involved. .Religion should not be part of the school day, it should be a family matter. I really don't see why anyone needs to practice a faith at school. You can pray at home.[/quote]
I was just quoting a teacher I know, I don't think it. I don't attend church.

Many schools with links to religions don't receive additional funding. This is especially true of CofE schools, which is why there are two types (Voluntarily Aided and Voluntarily Controlled).

However, the church often owns the land the school is built on and sometimes the buildings themselves. After all, it was the church that first set up and ran many of those schools. Unless the Government/council was prepared to buy control of the land (and buildings), they couldn't change the admissions criteria.

In reality, for most schools, the religious priority accounts for very few pupils. In ours, it's usually a quarter or less of the intake each year. However, if you ask in the community, they would tell you that you can't get in unless you go to church. It's not true but it is their perception.

So why repeat it @willow19c? I've heard this said before by parents using faith schools. It's insulting to those of us who do care very much , but just happen not to have been born into a specific religion. It's a bit tricky to rock up to church and start playing the faith game if you've never attended before or aren't christened. I just can't bear the smug attitude that eminates from some parents who use faith schools. When DS got into his school and some found out we weren't Catholic they actually complained to the school as they thought we had commited fraud to get in. never mind our son has SEN and the school had specific facilities for him. Small minded people.

All religious schools should be banned. It's ridiculous in this day and age. Teach your kids your religion at home

I always think mumsnet is extremely hypocritical about faith school, most of the uk doesnt have Grammar school, s, but the general consensus on mumsnet is that they are great for those that are lucky enough to have them and lucky enough to have super duper intelligent children to pass the 11+so they are happy enough for the tax payers to fund their kids but not kids in faith schools
How about we improve education across all schools so all kids get an equal chance?

I wholeheartedly agree, which is why our Christian family and friends were surprised when we opted for the closer, non-Christian school. If you are a faith school, your funding should come from your local diocese or faith community (do Muslims have the equivalent of dioceses?).

I agree it's farcical to have a system where parents have to turn up at church for a few years in order to get their children into a particular school. I don't think Jesus was too keen on hypocrisy. Having said that, are also many C of E schools, both primary and secondary, which don't have a religious requirement for entry.

How many people are against faith schools but pro independent schools?

Is selection by parents' ability to pay fees really any better?

To be honest my dc are in Catholic school, I initially chose it because I am a lapsed catholic, my own schools were rather mild on pushing the religion, and I like the moral ethos.

However the experience has rather put me off, the political head pushing it, it's almost felt like brain washing.

What chance to dc have with independence thought if parents and the school pushes the religious aspect so hard?

It's brain washing. Every person is born free and equal, we can show them different things, we should never ever force or push it.

At around age 8 years both dc said they don't believe and I didn't say yay or ney except that I respect what they feel and support it but be discreet at school.

Bit weird to focus so much on Jewish schools in this thread as they are really not responsible for that many places even in Borehamwood.

The Jewish schools in North London/Herts are oversubscribed so non-Jews don't get admitted. In Ilford they are not so there are non-Jewish students at King Solomon. As for the chareidi sector, most of those schools are not state funded.

My dc would have gone to JFS most likely if we had stayed in London. On the one hand, I never totally liked the way faith schools are funded; on the other, English state schools aren't properly secular either. London Jewish schools do have good teaching, but they also tend to have a very low proportion of children on free school meals, i.e. very middle class intake.

Surely the fact your children where able to make that decision for themselves shows that even when they are in a system which pushes it they are capable of independent thought?

I support all different kinds of school because I don't believe one size fits all...

The difference between faith school and independent or grammar for me isn't the entry criteria, it's the brain washing aspect which removes the opportunity for free choice and independent thought.

To a degree, dd tells me loads of dc don't believe in God but they are being pushed by parents m

All state schools must follow the national curriculum whether they're faith schools or not. It's mandatory to learn objectively about various different beliefs.

Sirzy,

My huge "thing" is like my df who was a tribal Liverpool Labour supporter who never ever shoved it down my neck.. Or brain washed me to follow labour.. He pushed independently thinking and question everything.

That was his thing.. Question everything.

That's also mine, I see people in rl and even in here who for instance seem brain washed to follow a political party, our parents have such a strong influence over us...

So we used to try to take the dc to church when they were little but the priest at that time was not only quite intolerant of any noise or movement he was also anti abortion and all that. So we stopped going.

Our dc have never had religion pushed or presented at home as what we do.

Conversations at home has never been soley around religion so they have not had that double layer of pushing.

I find religious schools highly divisive.

Surely if we want to teach tolerance and openness in society then kids of all faiths should be educated together?

But then you didn’t feel strongly enough about how awful church schools where for independent thinking when you decided to send your children too one? Your rather contradicting yourself in your post.

You have shown that even with a catholic education both you and your children have been able to make your own opinions on things so why do you think others won’t be able to? Even if they go along with the family line while primary school age that doesn’t mean they aren’t going to make their own decision ultimately and obviously that decision may be that they do believe in that religion.