To think faith schools should be forced to change their application process?

[storminborehamwood]

Most people accept that you can't discriminate against someone for their religion. So why can faith schools do it when it comes to kids getting a place?

AIBU to think state-funded faith schools should be forced to remove religious criteria from applications?

I know state-funded faith schools get extra funding from religion and that supposedly justifies giving priority to kids with religious ties.

I just can't understand why it's illegal to mark someone down for a job application based on their religion, but it's okay to do it for a school application.

The OP sounds bitter for personal reasons.

That is not a good enough argument, and faith schools should not be "forced" to suit the OP.

...and we know there are no secular schools in the UK. The law requires compulsory Christianity. Parents can opt-out and have their kids placed in what amounts to detention for the duration of the assembly, but understandably choose not to.

Secular means independent of religion

You need to think of the word 'religion' in wider terms. Politics, gender issues, climate change, veganism and a host of other topics are being treated as 'religions' nowadays and people are being indoctrinated, yes

faith schools should not be "forced" to suit the OP

The word 'forcing' denotes a bullying tone

The separation of religion and the state (all aspects of it) should be a paramount principle. We have not got there yet - when we do perhaps we might then be allowed to call ourselves a civilized nation.

Faith schools should simply not exist within the state education system.

@mustlovegin

Secular means independent of religion

You need to think of the word 'religion' in wider terms. Politics, gender issues, climate change, veganism and a host of other topics are being treated as 'religions' nowadays and people are being indoctrinated, yes

"Religion noun UK /rɪˈlɪdʒ.ən/ US /rɪˈlɪdʒ.ən/

B1 [ C or U ]
the belief in and worship of a god or gods, or any such system of belief and worship:
the Christian religion"

I fail to see how any of what you mentioned fits that definition. I've certainly never heard of any school 'indoctrinating' children into veganism.

Seaspiricy and a whole host of propoghanda is trying to stop humans eat protein.

First they came for the beef.

the belief in and worship of a god or gods, or any such system of belief and worship

What so you think worship of a human diety or belief system looks like?

I think many clearly missed what's been going on the past decade in this country.

What do these animal loving vegans think will happen to farm animals once they stop us eating them, that they will roam free in English pastures, no they are giving them a species death sentence, they will not be helped to birth, when unwell, fed or housed in winter. They will become like a squirrel, rat, hedgehog or fox, most will not be interested in them.

@SunIsBehindGreySky

the belief in and worship of a god or gods, or any such system of belief and worship

What so you think worship of a human diety or belief system looks like?

I think many clearly missed what's been going on the past decade in this country.

A cult, I suppose. Although I've never seen anyone encouraging worship of any human being in schools.

@SunIsBehindGreySky

What do these animal loving vegans think will happen to farm animals once they stop us eating them, that they will roam free in English pastures, no they are giving them a species death sentence, they will not be helped to birth, when unwell, fed or housed in winter. They will become like a squirrel, rat, hedgehog or fox, most will not be interested in them.

I don't know, what has that got to do with religion on schools?

@SunIsBehindGreySky
Whereas now they live wonderful happy lives?

But irrelevant to the thread unless in the context of ideologies being discussed in RE or PSHE, which should happen in all schools.

@Deletesystem33
You're being invited to take a broader view of 'religion' than the dictionary definition. Everyone has a value system or ideology, whether it gets labelled religion or politics (which are not binaries).

Secular means independent of religion, LGBTQ issues have nothing to do with it.
It has if LGBTQ is being taught as a set of values, e.g. TWAW. That is a belief that secular schools teach as fact. They don't say 'We believe x but others believe y.' So they are entirely disrespecting and disregarding others' beliefs.

I don't know, what has that got to do with religion on schools?

Various ideologies are being taught in schools and people don't seem to notice it's no different to traditional Faith's. We are told to love above ourselves and others, certain people, lie, worship them etc. It's astounding that so many don't notice and seem to make out there is something wrong with those who see what they can't.

[quote BrassyLocks]@SunIsBehindGreySky
Whereas now they live wonderful happy lives?

But irrelevant to the thread unless in the context of ideologies being discussed in RE or PSHE, which should happen in all schools.

@Deletesystem33
You're being invited to take a broader view of 'religion' than the dictionary definition. Everyone has a value system or ideology, whether it gets labelled religion or politics (which are not binaries).

Secular means independent of religion, LGBTQ issues have nothing to do with it.
It has if LGBTQ is being taught as a set of values, e.g. TWAW. That is a belief that secular schools teach as fact. They don't say 'We believe x but others believe y.' So they are entirely disrespecting and disregarding others' beliefs.[/quote]
Value systems are not the same as Religions. You can't just make up new definitions of words.

@SunIsBehindGreySky

I don't know, what has that got to do with religion on schools?

Various ideologies are being taught in schools and people don't seem to notice it's no different to traditional Faith's. We are told to love above ourselves and others, certain people, lie, worship them etc. It's astounding that so many don't notice and seem to make out there is something wrong with those who see what they can't.

Which people are children on specifically non-faith schools being told to worship?

Deletesystem33

As Debbie Hayton, thay wrote some of the rules for Unions and schools.

@SunIsBehindGreySky

Deletesystem33

As Debbie Hayton, thay wrote some of the rules for Unions and schools.

Who exactly is worshiping Debbie Hayton?

@Deletesystem33
Value systems are not the same as Religions. You can't just make up new definitions of words.

Language is more nuanced than you seem to realise. It evolves all the time and definitions are not fixed and immutable.

Some Muslims, for example, don't call Islam a religion they call it a way of life or ideology. Point is, you can't draw a neat line between the two.

[quote BrassyLocks]@Deletesystem33
Value systems are not the same as Religions. You can't just make up new definitions of words.

Language is more nuanced than you seem to realise. It evolves all the time and definitions are not fixed and immutable.

Some Muslims, for example, don't call Islam a religion they call it a way of life or ideology. Point is, you can't draw a neat line between the two.[/quote]
Yes but this isn't language naturally evolving. This is just you making stuff up. You can't just claim every belief you don't like is a religion and every person you disagree with is bring worshiped in some way.

This thread comes up every autumn - year 6 parent finds nearby comp with good results but unfortunately Catholic/Jewish/c of e etc and cannot fulfill entry requirements. Quite a few of those who fake faith then start complaining about the prayers, the food, the early Friday finishes, the modest uniform policy.
Some parents want their children at a faith school regardless of results (DH for example wanted to apply for undersubscribed faith school miles away as second choice if DC's didn't get place at oversubscribed faith school short bus ride away - over my dead body!!)

Why does every other thread on MN have to get derailed into being about trans people, even if it has nothing to do with the topic of the thread?

@CalamityJaneDoe my orthodox MIL once explained to me that the rationale for Jewish schools was that jewish children are expected to be able to read biblical hebrew by age 12 and chant from the torah at the bare minimum.. As people of the book, they are also expected to study commentary, talmud, mishnah, gemara- a collection of oral tradition from the rabbis of the ages. It takes 7 years (1 page per day) to study talmud- it is 2711 pages long. Unsure if they study aramaic but it is an essential if you want to be a rabbi, which many orthodox Jewish men do aspire to. This isn't something that can be achieved from 1-2 hours of class every week.

Reform children mostly don't have such a detailed understanding of torah, they learn biblical hebrew and how to chant (usually from private lessons) and they have 2 hours of cheidar (equivalent of sunday school) every Saturday. But unlike the orthodox, they can write on the sabbath. Orthodox children can't write on the sabbath and if they didnt' have jewish school, they would need to have an entire day of lessons on sunday, and I am not sure if that is even enough. There are a few orthodox children who do go to private schools like Habs/City of London which do have a strong jewish presence and they make up the lessons on weekends, but it really impedes on family time.. But this is why most Jewish schools (in the UK) are orthodox and hence completely inaccessible to a non Jew. It would be difficult for a non Jewish child to adapt to such an education. even as an adult, i took around a year to learn biblical hebrew and my hebrew is probably worse than most orthodox children even if I can read my prayer book fluently.

the few cross communal jewish schools (Eden primary, akiva, Jcoss) do welcome non Jews too so not really an issue.

@Mischance

The separation of religion and the state (all aspects of it) should be a paramount principle. We have not got there yet - when we do perhaps we might then be allowed to call ourselves a civilized nation.

Faith schools should simply not exist within the state education system.

Yes

@Deletesystem33
You can't just claim every belief you don't like is a religion and every person you disagree with is bring worshiped in some way.

Where have I claimed such?

[quote BrassyLocks]@Deletesystem33
You can't just claim every belief you don't like is a religion and every person you disagree with is bring worshiped in some way.

Where have I claimed such? [/quote]
You seem to think things like veganism and "climate change" count as religion and that people worship some random headteacher in the same way people worship a god. You're just making it up as you go along.