Aibu for choosing mother rather than unborn baby?

[Bells3032]

I'm currently 20 weeks pregnant. Having one of those hypothetical conversations regarding what would your partner do if something happened and it was your life v unborn baby's life. I said 100% he should chose me. Friend was surprised and said she'd chose her unborn baby over her.

Said it makes more sense to choose the mother as she's less "replaceable" for lack of a better sense (not that a baby is replaceable but hopefully you know what I mean) and the only person who'd be more upset at losing the baby than me would be me.

Am I just a horribly in maternal person.

Which would you chose?

@Detest

That sounds like some very tough situations & pregnancies 💐

However, there was not going to be a situation where your baby's life was prioritised above yours.

@Capilala. Why can’t I think she was selfish and wrong? She delayed chemo by six months so she could give birth to her child. Thereby denying all 4 children of their mother growing up because she didn’t want to have an abortion. The elder 3 kids needed a mother way more than an additional sibling. She put her morals on abortion before her living children which i think is awful. You’re absolutely entitled to disagree and think she was right to continue the pregnancy even though she knew it was a death sentence. I think she was wrong.

@Sxxyfing

My mum made my DH promise he would save me if it came to it when I gave birth. She said we could always have another baby but I was irreplaceable. Horrible I know but horrible to even have to consider it. We were lucky to have a healthy baby and reasonably straightforward birth. It makes me sad for those who aren't so lucky

I'd see about having my mother committed if she had such an intrusive and inappropriate conversation with my dh. Or me. I'd assume she wasn't of sound mind.

My friend is pregnant with her first child. It’s a high risk pregnancy she’s mid 40’s and has health issues. At a gynae appointment the Dr advised her to get the vaccine as soon as possible, if she got Covid it could be life threatening. After the appointment her “D”h told her not to get it as it would harm the baby. She wants the vaccine but will not be getting it because of her husband. She has lied to her family and said the Dr advised against getting the vaccine until after birth.

@BikeRunSki No he wasn't, don't tell tales.

Since I already have a child, I would choose my life without a shadow of a doubt. If it was my first child, I might weigh up benefit of life vs growing up motherless in relation to the baby. But I would prioritise my existing child keeping their mother. It is only since having a child myself that I've realised how strong that bond is and how dependant children often are on their mothers. Also (and it does make me a little sad saying this), I'm not sure how well my DH would cope bringing up our DC alone and whether, amidst all the stress involved in being a single parent, he would be able to build them a happy home on his own.

That's not true. DP was told they could save me or DCs and the choice would be his. Hence me giving DM NOK rights.

She delayed chemo by six months so she could give birth to her child. Thereby denying all 4 children of their mother growing up because she didn’t want to have an abortion

At the risk of sounding hard hearted, it sounds like she’d probably have died either way then? If the cancer had spread quickly enough for her to die within twelve months of diagnosis, it was presumably pretty advanced when they found it, or very aggressive.

@Changechangychange

She delayed chemo by six months so she could give birth to her child. Thereby denying all 4 children of their mother growing up because she didn’t want to have an abortion

At the risk of sounding hard hearted, it sounds like she’d probably have died either way then? If the cancer had spread quickly enough for her to die within twelve months of diagnosis, it was presumably pretty advanced when they found it, or very aggressive.

Who knows but she chose not to find out and prioritise her unborn child over herself. Which I believe was wrong as she had 3 other young children who needed her much more than another sibling. If she hadn’t had older children then it is more understandable but even so - what a legacy to leave a child with.

When I was having my first I said to dh if something goes wrong save the baby. When I had my second I said the same but I felt guilty because that would leave my first motherless. It's really hard isn't it

@BikeRunSki

DH was asked this when DD was born (I was unconscious). He chose me, as we already had a child. Fortunately we both survived.

Nah. Didn't happen.

@Detest

That's not true. DP was told they could save me or DCs and the choice would be his. Hence me giving DM NOK rights.

That's simply untrue.

Where was this?

The choice most definitely would not be your DH's. There are laws in place that make it clear.

@Detest

That's not true. DP was told they could save me or DCs and the choice would be his. Hence me giving DM NOK rights.

When was that, Detest, and was it in the UK? It certainly didn't happen with mine here in England, forty odd years ago, nor with anyone I know from then.

That was quite appalling!

@paulhollywoodshairgel

When I was having my first I said to dh if something goes wrong save the baby. When I had my second I said the same but I felt guilty because that would leave my first motherless. It's really hard isn't it

No it's not. Such a scenario would not arise. If something goes wrong, the medical team will do their utmost to protect both.

However, the mother's life in law has priority and whatever you or your DH thought was irrelevant.

It's not hard. It won't happen.

@HTKB

Can anyone even think of a plausible physiological emergency situation in which it would be a choice between mother and baby anyway?

In a life threatening emergency, a baby would always be delivered quickly, because you cannot resolve a cardiac arrest (which is what all life threatening situations lead to) in a pregnant woman without delivering the baby. You wouldn’t leave a women on a life threatening situation pregnant, unless for a short time to stabilise them, in which short period they may die I suppose. But generally you would seek to deliver as quickly as possible, to save the mothers life, and then of course the neonatal team would take over baby’s care anyway and do resus and whatever else.

You couldn’t leave a pregnant woman pregnant in an life threatening situation because then she would shortly die which would mean the baby would die anyway.

I can think perhaps in medieval times the lord of the manor being asked choose, perhaps because of obstructed labour or decelerations (if mediaeval midwives used Pinards and could interpret what they were hearing?) and then the woman being butchered in short order to deliver a live baby, but of course that would not happen now. I’ve worked in rural Africa and it doesn’t happens there either.

Any other HCPs here can think of when this might happen? Anything I’ve missed?

Miscarriage mgnt in USA hosps which are RC is a good example.

A surprising % of hosps in USA are RC and the % is increasing.

It's been in the news about delaying treating the woman if that means the foetus dies.

A handful of women have died due to this.

The most depressing thing is that if they don't treat her in a timely fashion then both can die.

In countries where abortion is essentially banned I haven't looked into it but I imagine things like that might happen.

I have zero idea if there were any issues in NI when the abortion law was one of the strictest in Europe. Assume not but don't actually know.

If we're talking UK then this is not an issue as you become a person when born.

@Detest This cannot be true, what scenario would even lead to a choice like this having to be made? Imagine the trauma and guilt of being asked to make a decision like that about a loved one as someone with no medical knowledge, it just doesn't happen thank god. You/your DH must have misinterpreted something, which is understandable as it sounds like a very stressful time.

Thinking on a bit more.

I find it utterly appalling to put the partner in that position.

It's just not fair and not right. A terrible thing to do. It should not be asked. (And here in confident it isn't).

Granny Weatherwax:

"Leave him out of it. It's not his choice.... What's he ever done to me, that I should hurt him so?"

(and she chose to save the mother, fwiw)

It's been in the news about delaying treating the woman if that means the foetus dies.

Sadly this was the case in Ireland until recently.

It wasn't quite as straightforward as this - it was the nature of the 8th amendment to the Constitution that gave equal rights to the life of the unborn baby & mother.

However, still the mother could be prioritised where there was an immediate & severe threat to life. However, the problem was determining that. In one notable case, the decision-making & assessment failed, the woman's condition deteriorated and she ultimately died. Again, the situation was nuanced (a family member was working there & close to events) but undoubtedly the lack of clarity in law contributed to a desperately sad outcome and really galvanised the push for the 8th to be repeated (and limited abortion to be introduced).

However, there was no question of choice by the mother (baby or her). That was actually the problem, that she didn't have the choice to prioritise her own life.

(actually she said "he's no part in this"... don't you just hate when you remember things too late?)

I had a very dear friend diagnosed with cancer in pregnancy who refused chemo and a termination and died when her youngest DD was just a few months old leaving 4 older siblings. We all miss her badly. I don't know what her children do/will think of her (I think it's now about 5 years since she died but they no longer live locally).

[quote Snookie00]@Capilala. Why can’t I think she was selfish and wrong? She delayed chemo by six months so she could give birth to her child. Thereby denying all 4 children of their mother growing up because she didn’t want to have an abortion. The elder 3 kids needed a mother way more than an additional sibling. She put her morals on abortion before her living children which i think is awful. You’re absolutely entitled to disagree and think she was right to continue the pregnancy even though she knew it was a death sentence. I think she was wrong.[/quote]
Because who the hell are you to sit in judgement of a woman making the most difficult decisions of her life?

If she was dead within a year of diagnosis, then her choice was likely not between three children keeping their mother and four motherless children, it was a choice between three motherless children and four motherless children.

People do the best they can in bad situations. Moralising about the choices they make, and name-calling after they are dead, is really unpleasant.

Id pick me just because I couldn't leave my children motherless and bring another kid into this world now also motherless

I know a woman who was in this situation she had the baby and died not long after.

How anyone can judge is beyond me.

The point is it's HER decision. With I'm sure loads of really emotional difficult conversations with partner docs, chances of treatment working and will it come back etc etc.

To judge a woman in that position is really horrible TBH.

But it's her life her body it's her decision.

[quote hamsterchump]@Detest This cannot be true, what scenario would even lead to a choice like this having to be made? Imagine the trauma and guilt of being asked to make a decision like that about a loved one as someone with no medical knowledge, it just doesn't happen thank god. You/your DH must have misinterpreted something, which is understandable as it sounds like a very stressful time.[/quote]
Of course it's true! Eclampsia, me with sky high blood pressure and seriously low platelet count, DCs 10 weeks premature with oxygen starvation for the same reasons. Must be nice to live in a world where every pregnancy goes perfectly....