Aibu for choosing mother rather than unborn baby?

[Bells3032]

I'm currently 20 weeks pregnant. Having one of those hypothetical conversations regarding what would your partner do if something happened and it was your life v unborn baby's life. I said 100% he should chose me. Friend was surprised and said she'd chose her unborn baby over her.

Said it makes more sense to choose the mother as she's less "replaceable" for lack of a better sense (not that a baby is replaceable but hopefully you know what I mean) and the only person who'd be more upset at losing the baby than me would be me.

Am I just a horribly in maternal person.

Which would you chose?

Yes it's quite funny, strange and a little arrogant to think a worried statement from a family member during an emergency, eg, "please save them both doctor", would become the basis of the medical team's plan over established procedures and medical science.

Like saying to a cancer surgeon "please get all the cancer". Do you expect them to think "Oh ok, well I was going to leave the cancer in there, but now that you've mentioned it, I'll get it out."

I’m going to assume a fair amount of this is people misinterpreting what they are hearing in a high-stress situation. With the stuck breach baby, I assume the medical team were explaining that there were two potential treatments before going on to say which one they were going to do, but that was heard as being made to make a choice.

You often hear similar misconceptions where families perceive they have been “asked permission” to turn off life support/make DNAR decisions/make other life and death decisions about family members. Doctors really do need to be careful about how they phrase things as what is heard is very different to what was actually intended.

I’m going to assume a fair amount of this is people misinterpreting what they are hearing in a high-stress situation
Not some of it, all of it.

I thought I was going to die giving birth to DC2 and all I could think about was DC1 being motherless. The welfare of the unborn baby (overdue so definitely a real person) didn't cross my mind because I didn't know him but all I could picture was DC1 being told I was dead and it was the worst feeling. So I would definatly choose myself over an unborn baby.

@GreyhoundG1rl I meant it is genuine misunderstanding, as opposed to deliberate melodramatics! Obviously none of it is an accurate representation of medical decision-making.

The consultant obstetrician clearly didn’t ask the husband to advise him on how best to manage a stuck breech.

I asked DH to save me in the event of there being a choice to be made when I was pregnant.

This is the sort of decision that only happens in novels.

IRL husband's do not get asked to choose.

[quote Changechangychange]@GreyhoundG1rl I meant it is genuine misunderstanding, as opposed to deliberate melodramatics! Obviously none of it is an accurate representation of medical decision-making.

The consultant obstetrician clearly didn’t ask the husband to advise him on how best to manage a stuck breech.[/quote]
I know what you meant.

@Almostwelsh

This is the sort of decision that only happens in novels.

IRL husband's do not get asked to choose.

Sadly this is not true. It happens every day in countries where not all women have access to c sections. Without a c section, obstructed labour can often only be treated by sacrificing the baby.

There's a lot wrong with peri-and post-natal care in this country, but we are still incredibly fortunate, compared to much of the world.

YANBU - the mother has to come first IMO. For many reasons.

@MissLucyEyelesbarrow true, I was thinking of present day UK.

But even in the developing world they will choose the mother, as the baby usually has no hope of survival without her.

But even in the developing world they will choose the mother, as the baby usually has no hope of survival without her

True where they make a positive decision. Often, though, they delay the decision too long, in the hope of a live birth, meaning that the mother cannot be saved or suffers terrible birth injuries . So, in effect, they are choosing the baby over the mother, even though they might not put it in those terms, and even though this doesn't save the baby.

We need to end early marriage and FGM, and to give women autonomy over their bodies, as well as access to proper maternity care.

There are a lot of fraught & dramatic accounts of obstetric emergencies
In none of them would the husband be asked to make a stark mum or baby choice
A consultant and whole theatre team aren’t compelling men into immediate clinical decision making, and allowing the partner to chose
This is a non choice, it simple doesn’t happen
There is no big speech. No fraught choice. No save me! Save the baby
Understandably in the moment critical information is conveyed in a pressured environment and it is likely that misunderstanding arise. Or as a result of pressure and stress the recall and understanding Is impaired

@Capilala

She deserves sympathy

Is describing her as selfish and ridiculous an appropriately sympathetic response?

I didn't describe her as selfish and ridiculous. I criticised your justification of the choice we're told the woman made.

You didn't simply say - "that's an awful way to talk about someone in a horrible situation" (and I agree the wording was harsh and unsympathetic, I don't necessarily agree with it and I'd certainly hope Recessed wouldn't say anything like that to someone actually in that position, but we have no reason to think she would).

You justified the choice (even though we have no idea what the woman referred to was thinking) and it was your reasoning in the justification I was criticising. Your reasoning (even with the luxury of being able to make up your own statistical likelihoods) - was sentimental and poorly thought out.

You suggested that a baby sibling would be some kind of "support network" which is pretty unfathomable at first when any current children would really need support and hardly guaranteed once adult. A support network that justified an additional 1 in 5 chance of losing their mother. Implying that such a decision could be in the best interests of the child(ren) that was already alive and aware. That's what I was criticising.

I don't know what the woman was thinking, personally I doubt she made the decision to benefit the children she already had, but maybe the situation was very different from what you posited and actually she did. I suspect, more likely, she valued her fetus's possible life and the idea of innocence above her own life and tried not to think too hard about what her death would do to her current children.

It wouldn't happen, but if it were to, I'd choose mother over baby. Who knows if baby was going to grow up to be a monster!
Can also just picture husbands/partners promising the wife they'd choose her then actually choosing the baby 😅.
jk

Horrible predicament to be in and I can’t say for certain. I already have DC who need me around so I’d be inclined to say me for that reason really but I’m not sure I’d cope with that decision for the rest of my life, it’s a heavy burden to bear.

The mother always comes first, medically this is what doctors have to do.

In the UK (although I haven't checked the law on persongood in NI).

Mother first is no way universal.

I doubt the father would get asked then either though. Certainly they haven't been in cases where women have died because the baby was seen as a person too.

I think that some of the posters on this thread have shown the lack of understanding of the severe psychological effects of being a younger parent living with cancer (and presumably other life-threatening conditions), and how it affects risk assessment and prioritisation. My perspective is different now. I have to plan two parallel futures for my children, one in which I am alive, and in which I am not, and the mental toll that that takes is immense. Above all, I can’t allow myself to believe that leaving a child motherless is the worst possible outcome, because there’s a good chance that that is going to happen anyway, and there is literally nothing that I can do about it. If I did believe that then I would quickly be driven to madness.

I think that’s why I find the certainty, and the utilitarian attitude, of some people on this thread so jarring.

I sincerely hope that no else reading this ever has to make the decisions that I have had to make. But if you ever have to support another woman who does have to, then please muster up as much compassion as you are able. Because what is black and white for you is most assuredly not going to be for her. It's all parlour games on the internet until it becomes your hellish reality.

@Capilala

I think that some of the posters on this thread have shown the lack of understanding of the severe psychological effects of being a younger parent living with cancer (and presumably other life-threatening conditions), and how it affects risk assessment and prioritisation. My perspective is different now. I have to plan two parallel futures for my children, one in which I am alive, and in which I am not, and the mental toll that that takes is immense. Above all, I can’t allow myself to believe that leaving a child motherless is the worst possible outcome, because there’s a good chance that that is going to happen anyway, and there is literally nothing that I can do about it. If I did believe that then I would quickly be driven to madness.

I think that’s why I find the certainty, and the utilitarian attitude, of some people on this thread so jarring.

I sincerely hope that no else reading this ever has to make the decisions that I have had to make. But if you ever have to support another woman who does have to, then please muster up as much compassion as you are able. Because what is black and white for you is most assuredly not going to be for her. It's all parlour games on the internet until it becomes your hellish reality.

. Thank you for your deeply affecting and educational post. Wishing you and your family all the very best ❤️❤️

It was the 70's and my father was in the Army, it was the norm then. Definitely NOT a family tale!!

CecilyP, I have no idea as that wasn't what he chose and as the child in question, I wouldn't know. All I can say is what my parents have told me. This was in the early 70s when my father was in the Army, wives and children were seen as "baggage".

Things are different now.

I'd choose me too. I'm here, I exist, I have relationships and responsibilities. The baby doesn't know anything or anyone yet.

There is no other human relationship where anyone can physically mooch off anyone else, even if not supplying a physical body product would kill the other person. Even if it was an eyelash. That is how strongly we feel about body integrity. Except when it comes to women. Then it's all, "oh what if a cell meets another cell . . . "
Fuck that.