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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

AIBU about people who say ‘they worked hard to get to where they are’?

970 replies

MessyMissyMe · 07/09/2021 18:06

Generally these are highly paid people who were able to go to University (support from parents/inherited intellect/confidence and self belief built up by secure, happy childhood) or had the resources to start their own business and were lucky enough to get remunerated by employment that they enjoyed and were good at, didn’t have outside influences or stressors that made things harder/took up time they needed to study or build a career.

They basically are just LUCKY and don’t deserve their success anymore than a cleaner or a care worker living hand to mouth in social housing deserves their lack of.

AIBU to get annoyed at people who say this?

OP posts:
Testingprof · 10/09/2021 12:30

@BritInUS1

Wow, really !

I didn't have a wealthy upbringing, I didn't go to Uni, I got a full time job and studied in the evenings to learn more and get more qualifications to reach where I wanted to be (all self funded)

I have worked so hard to get where I am, I have taken huge risks, I have not be handed anything on a plate, I have worked hard for every single penny of what I have today

So have I been LUCKY, no !!!

Well actually… yes. You said it in your post, you took huge risks. If you were unlucky nothing would have gone your way and you’d have lost everything. Unless you didn’t really take huge risks… you were lucky but that doesn’t negate your hard work. Nor does it negate the hard work of those who have been less fortunate than you or those who were less able to take ‘huge risks’.
OldGeezer · 10/09/2021 16:09

You MAKE your own luck + work, work, work.

Two years pre/11+ tutoring = a good pass & scholarship to a local public school.

Nose to grindstone throughout secondary education (including additional holiday studies + holiday jobs to supplement pocket money). Result - good ‘O’ & ‘A’ level passes.
Result - place at veterinary school.
Work all the hours that God sends ( including 2 or 3 in 5 nights and weekends on duty ) save, borrow invest in the business - and repeat until retirement.

So yes - I’ve been lucky but I ( in fact We ) wouldn’t be where we are without me and SWMBO working bloody hard too!

Badbadbunny · 10/09/2021 16:10

Taking a "huge" risk can mean different things.

A lottery winner spunking all the winnings on red at a roulette wheel is taking a very different risk to someone investing their lottery winnings in a business with a properly prepared & researched business plan. The former being a 50:50, the latter could be more of a 90:10 risk of working due to the proper research etc., and the business plan may well include mitigations if the "risk" didn't work, i.e. recovering some of the money from asset sales etc.

Rozziie · 10/09/2021 16:14

I'm sure a girl in Afghanistan or someone who was paralysed from being hit by a drunk driver would love to hear all about you 'make your own luck', @OldGeezer.

It's a horrid, ableist saying that implies everyone is starting on a level playing field, which couldn't be further from the truth.

Comedycook · 10/09/2021 16:17

@OldGeezer

You MAKE your own luck + work, work, work.

Two years pre/11+ tutoring = a good pass & scholarship to a local public school.

Nose to grindstone throughout secondary education (including additional holiday studies + holiday jobs to supplement pocket money). Result - good ‘O’ & ‘A’ level passes.
Result - place at veterinary school.
Work all the hours that God sends ( including 2 or 3 in 5 nights and weekends on duty ) save, borrow invest in the business - and repeat until retirement.

So yes - I’ve been lucky but I ( in fact We ) wouldn’t be where we are without me and SWMBO working bloody hard too!

Hilarious.

I presume your parents tutored you for the eleven plus or paid someone to. That's lucky you had parents who gave a shit

Comedycook · 10/09/2021 16:19

Oh and well done for working so hard at secondary school @oldgeezer

Can I presume one of your parents didn't die? Can I presume they weren't alcoholics? Can I presume you weren't a young carer? Can I presume you didn't live in cramped temporary accommodation?

PalmarisLongus · 10/09/2021 16:33

"Two years pre/11+ tutoring = a good pass & scholarship to a local public school."

Lucky you had tutoring. Scholarships meant some one chose you, lucky that they picked you and not any of the others.

"Nose to grindstone throughout secondary education (including additional holiday studies + holiday jobs to supplement pocket money)"

Lucky you could study in holidays, lucky you got a summer job, lucky you got pocket money.

"Result - good ‘O’ & ‘A’ level passes.
Result - place at veterinary school."

Lucky you got a place at vet school and they didn't dismiss your application like they would have 100 others, but those 199nothers just didn't work as hard as you I guess.

"Work all the hours that God sends ( including 2 or 3 in 5 nights and weekends on duty )'
Lucky you got e ployed by someone and they didn't dismiss your CV like they would have other peoples. Or lucky that the business you set up worked out and ditn fail like 100ps of other businesses every year. Maybe they just didn't work hard enough?

"save, borrow invest in the business"

Lucky you could save and the recessions and pandemics didn't negatively affect that. Lucky you could borrow from people and banks and the people making that judgement said yes instead of no.

But yep. No luck at all.

Isn't it funny how often those that have been the luckiest deny it the most?

lazylinguist · 10/09/2021 16:35

Wow, some people really are unbelievably oblivious. Do you not realise that even being in a position to be tutored for the 11+ and be entered for a scholarship at a public school already put you in a completely different ball-game from so many other children, OldGeezer?!

Children whose parents can't offer those things or don't give a shit, or don't even understand where to begin with seeking out those kinds of opportunity? Children with abusive parents, drug addict parents, children whose parents are barely able to feed their families? Would you tell them to 'make their own luck'? Nobody makes their own luck at age 11. You were given that luck to get you started, regardless how hard you might have worked later. Do you not understand that other people also work 'all the hours god sends' in the menial exhausting jobs they have no choice but to put up with, and without getting a vet's salary?

Your luck may have happened at the beginning of your life, but it affects all of it, including your character and ability to be motivated.

lazylinguist · 10/09/2021 16:39

I'm a teacher, and I see this every day. The effects of a child's environment, upbringing and family attitudes are apparent from early primary age. It's easy to have the right attitude to education and to your future if that's what you've been fed from birth.

RacistAngst · 10/09/2021 16:50

Easier @lazylinguist, not easy.

Two very different things imo.

RacistAngst · 10/09/2021 16:52

And it doesn’t mean that others (who didnt. Have such. luck. Aren’t working hard either)

Yellowbowlbanana · 10/09/2021 17:11

OldGeezer is who the OP is about. Oblivious to the luck in their circumstances.

lazylinguist · 10/09/2021 17:21

And it doesn’t mean that others (who didnt. Have such. luck. Aren’t working hard either)

That's what I was saying Confused.

Easier @lazylinguist, not easy. Two very different things imo.

Fine, easier then. But a huge amount easier imo.

HelloHummingbird · 10/09/2021 17:23

I'm a teacher, and I see this every day. The effects of a child's environment, upbringing and family attitudes are apparent from early primary age. It's easy to have the right attitude to education and to your future if that's what you've been fed from birth.

Does not mean that for one minute that those people did not work hard for their exam results though, as a teacher, like myself they work damn well hard apart from 1% who are lucky enough to have the IQs to not revise.

They're lucky in their upbringing but they still worked hard, and lots at the expense of their social life and mental health.

HelloHummingbird · 10/09/2021 17:24

It's not just luck

lazylinguist · 10/09/2021 17:31

Does not mean that for one minute that those people did not work hard for their exam results though

No of course it doesn't. I've taught plenty of privileged, highly intelligent, very hard-working students. But the whole point of this thread is that however hard you work, your start in life (over which you had literally no influence) is highly relevant and was even partly responsible for your ability or motivation to work hard or not work hard. And that some people ignore or underestimate that when they appear to think that only hard work got them where they are.

EspressoDoubleShot · 10/09/2021 17:53

@OldGeezer your post is spectacularly myopic and ill informed
You had parents who had the knowledge & drive to know about 11+ and what’s more you were tutored to pass. That’s lucky and advantageous.Tutoring secured you additional time & advantage. You’re clearly smart and have utilized your luck.

Plenty people work!work work and repeat to earn minimum wage and scrape by

Hard work is not the sole endeavour of the driven

Too many people have factors that hold them back and inhibit progress
poor socioeconomic backgrounds.
Absent or don’t care parents
Childhood experience of trauma and loss
Unstable accommodation

There is conscious and unconscious bias
Class
Nepotism
To over come as obstacles to progressing

LipstickLou · 10/09/2021 18:17

For once this is a serious debate. Nature or nature might be appropriate here. I have earned huge salaries in my career and then not been able to get a job above minimum wages. I have been a carer and have a mentally disabled child. We have owned a multi bedroom house and had to sell it in the crash. We have had a very difficult decade. However I never give up. I had a crap secondary school but went to Oxford. I wanted a last big job and I got it. I have a tricky family (compulsive gambler, bipolar mother) but I didn't want ordinary. I worked from 13. My son who spent ten years in rented accommodation with bastard landlords would never rent, he bought at 22 by saving through uni. He worked two Jobs. (He got a full loan as I was a carer) and now he works for the ggovernment! We all have a chance to help others. I support many charities, volunteer and would be delighted to help those at job clubs. Too posh to push, hell no!

Rozziie · 10/09/2021 18:22

@LipstickLou

For once this is a serious debate. Nature or nature might be appropriate here. I have earned huge salaries in my career and then not been able to get a job above minimum wages. I have been a carer and have a mentally disabled child. We have owned a multi bedroom house and had to sell it in the crash. We have had a very difficult decade. However I never give up. I had a crap secondary school but went to Oxford. I wanted a last big job and I got it. I have a tricky family (compulsive gambler, bipolar mother) but I didn't want ordinary. I worked from 13. My son who spent ten years in rented accommodation with bastard landlords would never rent, he bought at 22 by saving through uni. He worked two Jobs. (He got a full loan as I was a carer) and now he works for the ggovernment! We all have a chance to help others. I support many charities, volunteer and would be delighted to help those at job clubs. Too posh to push, hell no!
I find it very hard to believe your son bought a house through saving through uni, to be honest. When was this? My loan didn't even cover my accommodation at uni and I had a part-time job and worked every summer, and that only just covered food, transport and other essentials. I wasn't destitute as a student but I couldn't have saved anything, and I graduated owing a lot of money on my student loan.
Comedycook · 10/09/2021 18:25

I'm also sceptical as to how anyone could afford to buy a property straight out of uni by saving up. I know Loads of people who worked during uni...they made enough to get by, not but a property. Tell us more!

lazylinguist · 10/09/2021 18:32

Too posh to push, hell no!

Umm... surely 'too posh to push' is a reference to women who demand a caesarean with no medical reasons because they don't want to give birth naturally? Confused

Not quite sure what point you're making in relation to the thread topic, LipstickLou. Nobody's saying that there aren't some people who go from hardship to success or vice versa. Privilege still gives you an easier start. Hardship still gives you a harder start. Hard work on its own is often not enough to gain success and wealth, in the absence of a fortunate upbringing.

PalmarisLongus · 10/09/2021 18:55

Privilege still gives you an easier start. Hardship still gives you a harder start. Hard work on its own is often not enough to gain success and wealth, in the absence of a fortunate upbringing.

I did not do great at school, but after I left I got a job at a clothing factory. I worked for a company for 10 years. I started as a floor sweeper, sweeping up bits of cloth etc.
I got to a machinist.
Then I got into the office as a manager's assistant.
Then I got to be an office supervisor.

10 years that took.

2 years into being an office supervisor, a new boy started who was 19 at that time. He was allowed to spend 2 weeks in every department in the company, factory floor with the machinists, sales, design, etc he then got to choose which department he wanted to work in, they had never ever done such a program before for anyone, he chose to go in to the design department on the computers.

How did he get this job? Going from department to department? Picking the role he wanted? Was it through application? Beating 100 other applicants? Being the best man for the job?

No.

He was the son of the managing Directors next door neighbour. He went out with the managing director and his family to football and barbecues etc.
By his own admission, he hadn't done well at school and needed a job.
Now in fairness, he was a good designer and he worked well. He wasn't a go above and beyond sort of employee but was good enough.

After a year he was earning more than I was after 10 years, I got to 21k a year, he picked his role, did a year and got a raise to 22k a year.

Usual2usual · 10/09/2021 19:27

I find it very hard to believe your son bought a house through saving through uni

DH and I bought our first flat in our 3rd year of uni. It can be done.

PigletJohn · 10/09/2021 19:47

It would be interesting to know the price of the flat, and your annual earnings.

On the face of it, your claim does not make sense.

Comedycook · 10/09/2021 19:49

@Usual2usual

I find it very hard to believe your son bought a house through saving through uni

DH and I bought our first flat in our 3rd year of uni. It can be done.

Please explain how
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