Gutted about NI rise

[CarryOnNurse20]

I know we need it and we have so much money to pay off. But we have been scrimping and saving after a hard couple of years. Every penny is accounted for from pay day to pay day. I’m a nurse and my pay has been capped/below inflation my whole career. And now the NI rise means any savings etc we have made will now be gone. I’m gutted.

It should at least be based on income tax. National insurance only affects those who are working.

@HesterShaw1

People like my mother are sitting on about £400,000 of unearned equity on the large house she lives in, which they paid £65,000 for in 1987. She stopped paying NI on reaching retirement age. She benefits from the non contributory pension my dad was given after he retired (in his 50s), plus her own pensions, plus half of his. She's 75 years old and is still accumulating wealth (spends very little).

How the hell is this a fair system?

I completely agree with this sentiment. Family friends' elderly parents/grandparents I know are exactly the same. What really pisses me off is when they also expect everything from the NHS.

I won't name names, but a close elderly person recently went through a serious operation. Her family were livid that she would have to pay additional money to get aftercare from the NHS, or assistance. She is sitting on a c.£750,000 to £1m fortune. In her 90s. It's the audacity of the entitlement.

Separate issue: why is the govt not increasing taxes on the super rich and the likes of Bezos/Zukckerburg? Gahh

YANBU Op. Personally I think they should increase inheritance tax. A tax on the working poor is abhorrent. I say that as someone who will likely inherit one day.

@LizzieSiddal

It’s an extremely unfair way to raise money. It makes my blood boil that very wealthy pensioners will not be paying anything towards this.

This

We already pay quite a large whack for social care via Council Tax. However, someone needs to sort social care, and it needs to be paid for. As others have said, it's not just for the elderly.

I note that those with occupational pensions who have been paying tax will be contributing to education, and have throughout their own careers, had their NI used to fund the generation above them. Taxpayers of all ages will have paid for furlough, be they in their first job, or on a pension.

@Catatemyhomework

YANBU Op. Personally I think they should increase inheritance tax. A tax on the working poor is abhorrent. I say that as someone who will likely inherit one day.

This too.

I will fully support this if it means that NHS employees will actually start getting payrises in line with inflation, but we all know that will never happen.

She's 75 years old and is still accumulating wealth (spends very little)

How very dare she not spend. Money's wasted on the old.

Have you forgotten that the last 2 NIC increases were imposed by Blair/Brown, i.e. a Labour government?

That was more than a decade ago, but more to the point, did they ever make a song and dance about not increasing taxes which is what the Tories do? NIC is effectively a tax.

I agree with others though, that I don't mind paying tax if it's spent well to the benefit of society. I do mind seeing taxpayers money going to Boris's already wealthy, greedy mates.

I note that those with occupational pensions who have been paying tax will be contributing to education, and have throughout their own careers, had their NI used to fund the generation above them. Taxpayers of all ages will have paid for furlough, be they in their first job, or on a pension.

And they will have been paying at the same rate as others in their tax bracket, regardless of age.

NI is very focused on working age and lower-paid. Fewer people would have an issue if this was on income tax. (And I suspect even fewer if it partly also addressed unearned wealth through the asset boom.)

I think this is hugely unfair on the youngest & least well off in the country.

On a personal level it really jars that we'll be hundreds a year worse off whilst in laws on healthy final salary pensions don't have to pay an extra penny. And live in a house that's increased by half a million plus in value, mortgage long since paid off.

I don't think it's fair or helpful to make it a 'young versus' poor issue though. I get that people think the older generation have had it easier financially and I am 42 with 3 DC who are teens and pre teens so I am not saying it from a defensive position. But this bun fighting between younger and older people is doing exactly what they want - getting people to mud sling at each other s we don't look closer at what is actually going on. I don't begrudge older people wealth half as much as I do the absolute bellend companies who benefit from paying their workers fuck all, with terrible conditions and then use tax loopholes to get out of paying their fair share. I also hate the diversion of public funds into private business (this new xx million for the NHS for example, pretty sure that will be diverted into the wrong hands) more than an older couple enjoying multiple holidays etc.

Kick up definitely, but don't kick each other.

'Young versus old' issue even!

@Xenia

I don't agree about the benefit of house price rises however as (i) we sold 3 properties at a loss in the 1990s including our home bit losses eg a flat bought at £75k for £50k kinds of losses and had been paying 14% interest rates (ii) as prices rose of my current house that just meant I had to take out a £1.3m mortgage to buy out my ex husband so no use having that price rise -just was a detriment to me (iii) prices rising has meant I have had to help the 5 children buy their first property - last one in Jan 2021 which is why I am 59 and have no savings and no pension other than state when I turn 67 and will work until i die. The fact there is equity in my mortgaged house in which I wll live until I die is not real cash as I want to do as my parents and my father's mother did - live in the one house until I die. If this house were in Newcastle from which I had to move to find work away from all babysitting and family support, nor would there be as much or any inheritance ta xon it but just because it is in the SE it means if I die with the £500k IHT allowance (I am single) then anything over that means the children are homeless because of IHT whereas same house in the NE and the children retain a home if I die.

The only "benefit" is if I were downsizing to a flat I suppose.

How will your children be homeless if you have helped them buy their first homes? Any inheritance tax will be paid out of your estate because it is based on the value of your estate.

A £1.3m mortgage? we are all used to your stories Xenia, but you do lay it on a bit thick.

Agree SafeMove

"A £1.3m mortgage? we are all used to your stories Xenia, but you do lay it on a bit thick."

Indeed 😂

@sst1234

Yes OP, you are paying for the privilege of allowing others people to pass on inheritance to their children. It’s absolutely bonkers.

Absolutely this! I hear you OP, we too have allocated every penny we earn, I just spent the weekend trying to re-do our finances to cover increased food costs and increase in utility bills (our supplier has almost doubled our monthly payments!) And now this!

It makes me absolutely mad that low income people are going to be effectively subsidising massive gifts of free, unearned cash to people lucky enough to be born to home owning parents.

It would be a lot easier to bear this NI rise if wealthy older people were still expected to pay for their own care from their own assets.

@PenguinIce

This means in a lot of cases they will be taking from the working poor to give to the asset rich. So unfair!

It's what the Conservative Party does. Of course it's unfair, but:'Tories gonna Tory'. They were voted in. (not by me!)

@Catatemyhomework

YANBU Op. Personally I think they should increase inheritance tax. A tax on the working poor is abhorrent. I say that as someone who will likely inherit one day.

I agree and I also stand to inherit some day. My father is always trying to persuade my siblings and I into creative ways of avoiding the inheritance tax which will be due when he passes. My take on it is that it is pure luck and unearned by me and the state SHOULD tax the shit out of it to support wider society. I am myself a low earner and could certainly 'do' with the money but I am very happy for a large wedge to go into the pot to create a decent society from which I and my children will also benefit. Most people think I'm nuts though.

@Remoteso

I think this is hugely unfair on the youngest & least well off in the country.

On a personal level it really jars that we'll be hundreds a year worse off whilst in laws on healthy final salary pensions don't have to pay an extra penny. And live in a house that's increased by half a million plus in value, mortgage long since paid off.

Just your in laws? What about your parents?

Here nhs have 3% pay rise, now give it back.
Our pay rise is allowing us to pay the increase in NI. We are funding our own rise.

@Catatemyhomework

YANBU Op. Personally I think they should increase inheritance tax. A tax on the working poor is abhorrent. I say that as someone who will likely inherit one day.

This!

I don't have much to add other than society feels constantly unfair and inequality everywhere. I don't even care which political party sorts it out, just get on with it! Admittedly I'm not doing anything in particular to help.

@HopelessBlue192

Depends on if you supported lockdowns or not. If you did then YABU as the money had to come from somewhere. If you didn't then YANBU.

Yes, that is completely how it works

@Pottedpalm It's not completely, I agree. But it's probably as fair as it gets. There will always be people who spend, spend ,spend and think that ' other people' should pick up the bill when they need help. I'm horrified by some of my very comfortably off friends who intend to spend everything they have and then throw themselves on the mercy of the state when they gave no money left. But you just can't legislate for every eventuality.