Gutted about NI rise

[CarryOnNurse20]

I know we need it and we have so much money to pay off. But we have been scrimping and saving after a hard couple of years. Every penny is accounted for from pay day to pay day. I’m a nurse and my pay has been capped/below inflation my whole career. And now the NI rise means any savings etc we have made will now be gone. I’m gutted.

Ah I see the inevitable old/young rudeness has dominated this thread now. Great.

@RockingMyFiftiesNot

If your mother had worked then that second wage could have paid for things like holidays and new clothes. So your family chose to only have one person earning and to therefore live more frugally.

There was very little childcare available in the 60s and early 70s when I was a child, so unless you had family locally who were prepared to look after the children, it wasn't really a choice. Plus it was expected that mothers stayed home and looked after the children, that was the done thing. They were very different times which it sounds like you know little about.

Lots of women did work though. Often evening, weekend, or school hours only jobs rather than staying in their pre-children role.

All those dinner ladies, and school receptionists, lots of cleaners, shop assistants and barmaids were Mums working around times when the kids were at school or when Dad was home to look after them.

The problem was that having your wife at home full time to look after the house and children was aspirational. Plus it allowed men an easy life (no need to put the kids to bed while your wife worked). Having your wife go out to work was also seen as an attack on their fragile masculinity. It implied they couldn't "provide".

@Onlinedilema

People will not vote Labour until they get slick and come up with a marketing campaign. The truth is this: most humans are selfish, they do not want to pay an extra £2 or whatever to improve the NHS or for schools, or for improvements in local authority housing etc etc. They care only for that which benefits themselves or their own family. They are quite happy to leave people in Afganistan as it's not their problem. Lots of older people are quite happy to not pay to support those less fortunate than themselves, yet seemed shocked that they now have to fund their own care.

They don't just need a marketing plan they need to explain their financial plans better.

Their mistake is that they promise spending increases and just assume everyone will see this as "a good thing" but so many of the electorate fell hook line and sinker for Thatcherite economics and just say "where's the magic money tree?". They need to communicate Keynesian economics in simple terms so people can understand that spending isn't necessarily irresponsible.

All those dinner ladies, and school receptionists, lots of cleaners, shop assistants and barmaids were Mums working around times when the kids were at school or when Dad was home to look after them.

Fair enough, I agree with that but then those jobs only provided jobs for a tiny number of women, compared to today where changed attitudes and childcare provision enable so many more women to work and in much higher paid jobs as well as those you mention.

@the80sweregreat

I do hate the Tory bashing to be honest even though I'm not one! I know a 24 year old who voted Tory , I don't know many people who vote for anyone else to be honest or they just don't bother to vote. It's not all pensioners or older people voting for them. We live in a democracy and we have to go with whoever gets the most votes and ultimately seats in parliament as that is how it works. People just blaming one demographic is silly to be honest. Causes more division and we have enough of that already !

More people voted "not Tory" than voted for the Tories though.

Our electoral system is broken too.

We live in a democracy and we have to go with whoever gets the most votes and ultimately seats in parliament as that is how it works

If only that was true. More people voted against this government than for it. Our voting system is far from democratic.

I just heard a surgeon on the radio he said the 80k cap is for CARE only you'll have to pay for rent and food so realistically the cap is £180k. Sod that i am not aiming for a long life. So we are now paying tax than we paid under Jimmy Callaghan!

More people voted "not Tory" than voted for the Tories though.

Is that not the case whether Tories or Labour win?
I’m happy to be corrected.
Re the electoral system being broken, does any party have plans to change that?

All those dinner ladies, and school receptionists, lots of cleaners, shop assistants and barmaids were Mums working around times when the kids were at school or when Dad was home to look after them.

The problem was that having your wife at home full time to look after the house and children was aspirational. Plus it allowed men an easy life (no need to put the kids to bed while your wife worked). Having your wife go out to work was also seen as an attack on their fragile masculinity. It implied they couldn't "provide".

Indeed I grew up in a middle class area in the 80s. Women didn't work, my mother went back to teaching when I turned 6 but then it was 9-3pm she was home to put tea on the table (it was also just seen as pin money and a bit of a joke). Her workload at home was not less due to working. I think her wages went into their joint account.

@Andante57

More people voted "not Tory" than voted for the Tories though.

Is that not the case whether Tories or Labour win?
I’m happy to be corrected.
Re the electoral system being broken, does any party have plans to change that?

Kind of, but kind of not.

The areas where fewer voets get you one seat tend to be traditionally Tory areas.

The areas where you need more votes to get one seat tend to be traditionally Labour areas.

There are some further complexities to it, but broadly speaking, the current system mean the Tories can win with fewer votes (but a majority of seats) than Labour would need to get the same number of seat majority.

@dontwantausername

I just heard a surgeon on the radio he said the 80k cap is for CARE only you'll have to pay for rent and food so realistically the cap is £180k. Sod that i am not aiming for a long life. So we are now paying tax than we paid under Jimmy Callaghan!

Sorry, if I repeat a question, but I haven't time to read the whole thread. I am retired now. The basic rate of income tax has been 20% for quite a while, but I am sure that in my working life there were times when it was more than 20%. How much was it when Jim Callaghan was Chancellor? Now I expect you will all be cross with me and tell me to find out myself. I would have preferred to see an increase on tax, rather than NI.

@Andante57

More people voted "not Tory" than voted for the Tories though.

Is that not the case whether Tories or Labour win?
I’m happy to be corrected.
Re the electoral system being broken, does any party have plans to change that?

Nick Clegg tried as part of his coalition with the Conservatives a referendum was held which retained the first past the post system www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-13297573

Current system suits the main 2 partys most

Now I expect you will all be cross with me and tell me to find out myself.

That really made me smile. I love you @upinaballoon.

Income tax was a lot more. I think the references to the highest tax for 50 years relates to the overall tax take. Income tax is only 25% of taxation income.

My mum always worked too. We were working class, with my dad not earning much - they couldn't afford to have one parent at home.

There were fewer nurseries, but before/after-school childcare, childminders etc. certainly existed in the 70s and 80s. More informal arrangements too - plenty of women would pick up a neighbour's child from school and look after them for a couple of hrs for some extra cash.

@RumblyMumbly I live in an area where its been a Conservative MP since 1910, over 100 years. Other than moving area to a swing area, with the first past the post system I don't feel like I have a vote!

You are right up to a point, but in the last two elections there have been some very dramatic results. A few years ago not many would have believed Kensington would be Labour (admittedly not any more) or Hartlepool would be Conservative (possibly not for long).

I do hate the Tory bashing to be honest even though I'm not one! I know a 24 year old who voted Tory , I don't know many people who vote for anyone else to be honest or they just don't bother to vote.

I have no problem bashing the current Tory party - the half decent MPs with some integrity were chased out of the party pre the 2019 election.

On the separate subject of women not working - it was very much the case during the 1950s that middle class women didn't work outside the home. The only people I can think of were the District Nurses, and some teachers. The war time nurseries which had enabled women to work for the war effort got closed down.

Leaf of truth and rumblymumbly
Thank you for answering my question.

Tory Press giving Johnson a rough ride. Interesting if it is true. Yesterday the Guardian appeared to be reporting that he'd got away with it.

[quote Rosehip10]@GinPin2 Oh Boohoo I see you conveniently forgot to leave out how much your house(s) are worth and what your final salary pensions are - I'm sure many of todays younger couples wouldn't mind a honeymoon in UK and cheap furniture if they could ever afford to buy.[/quote]
@Rosehip10, My post was highlighting and reinforcing @viques statement that not all babyboomers found life easy in earlier years. ( Not that I consider myself to be a babyboomer, I was after that time really). And I did say that perhaps income tax would be fairer.
The childish "Boohoo" was uncalled for.
The point I was making was that I, as a pensioner ( but have not got my state pension yet) and many other pensioners have been through very lean times as youngsters whilst paying NI for care for others.

I did not "conveniently leave out info", that info was not necessary as that was not the point I was making.
But if you must know, we have a very modest semi HOUSE not houseS.
Also, my husband was on a final salary of £34, 000 when he retired as a teacher after 40 years of teaching just 6 years ago at 60. So his pension is based on that. That final salary is less than each of our sons in law earn now in their 30s.
My pension is based on far, far less as I ( and I did mention this ) could not get a teaching job at first despite both of us applying all over England and Wales. Then , only part time or short term contracts were available and, in the end, I settled for supply teaching. Only 18 months ago I was still paying NI as a supply teacher but Covid has put an end to my teaching career.
Oh, and by the way, our honeymoon was in a tent as we were both unemployed teachers at the time!

Just listening to Starmer talking about it

A landlord, owning a number of properties, won't have to pay a penny more 'tax'

But his tenants will

Not sure that sentence went quite as he meant it too! Landlords pay tax on their rental income, the legislation around what can and cannot be claimed against costs is reducing year on year.

i'm trying to find a free to view transcription, see whether I heard him right... because if he is going to stand against this he needs to get his facts right. Otherwise it just adds to the smoke and mirrors!

Landlords pay tax on their rental income, the legislation around what can and cannot be claimed against costs is reducing year on year

They don’t pay NI though. It’s crystal clear what he meant.

They don’t pay NI though. I was thinking of people who have a job as well as being a landlord rather than portfolio landords. I work in lettings and only know one or two portfolio / full time landlords.

The lack of clarity all round doesn't help!

They could have easily got landlords to pay on rental income by putting this on TAX instead of NI. Sheer madness and unfair to the lower paid.

@CuriousaboutSamphire

They don’t pay NI though. I was thinking of people who have a job as well as being a landlord rather than portfolio landords. I work in lettings and only know one or two portfolio / full time landlords.

The lack of clarity all round doesn't help!

To be fair (and I’m no fan of starmer), saying that landlords won’t pay more is clearly talking about rental income not being affected. Not that landlords have a special get out for all their earnings.

@Lunaduckdrop

They could have easily got landlords to pay on rental income by putting this on TAX instead of NI. Sheer madness and unfair to the lower paid.

Completely agree. It would have generated income from all tax paying pensioners too. It’s crazy.