Gutted about NI rise

[CarryOnNurse20]

I know we need it and we have so much money to pay off. But we have been scrimping and saving after a hard couple of years. Every penny is accounted for from pay day to pay day. I’m a nurse and my pay has been capped/below inflation my whole career. And now the NI rise means any savings etc we have made will now be gone. I’m gutted.

At least with VAT you can shop around carefully

VAT is also a regressive tax, hitting the less well-off disproportionately.

Lazy governments tax people because they’re too incompetent to grow the economy and pay for stuff that way. Anyone who can afford to plan taxes, should. Make sure you make max pension contributions, claim back tax and VAT wherever you can. Use your all your allowances. Punishing working people with punitive taxes is the lazy socialist way, not a progressive growth modes way to do things.

@Seesawmummadaw

Here nhs have 3% pay rise, now give it back. Our pay rise is allowing us to pay the increase in NI. We are funding our own rise.

I'm private sector and haven't had a pay rise for 4 years.

@RyanReynoldsHusband

But we knew taxes would have to rise after Covid. After lockdowns. After furlough. We knew it was coming.

It doesn’t make it right and it doesn’t make it fair, but really what did we expect? The shortfall has to come from somewhere.

We did know. And I'm someone who favours high taxes in a system like the Scandinavian countries manage, whereby you pay high taxes and don't pay for university/ social care etc. But this should have been an income tax rise on higher earners (of whom I'm lucky enough to be one), and the real bulk of the shortfall should come from wealth taxes. Alternatively the government could have looked to recoup the 37 billion paid out for a failed Track and Trace.

The NI specific raise could actually break the budget for some families, it's taking money from your pay before you even get it. At least with VAT you can shop around carefully.

I'd disagree on VAT, it's pretty regressive too - the poorest 20% spend on average just over 12% of income on VAT; the richest fifth just under 8%.

👚 wondered if anyone over the age of 60 wanted this. It's the shirt off my back! It is starting to feel that young people are totally forgotten in this country. Utterly sick of it.

Although this is not going to end up going to social care at all, it will disappear down another black hole without any improvement in services whatsoever, and anyone who thinks thing will improve are utterly barking mad.

@wednesdayweather

I agree and I also stand to inherit some day. My father is always trying to persuade my siblings and I into creative ways of avoiding the inheritance tax which will be due when he passes. My take on it is that it is pure luck and unearned by me and the state SHOULD tax the shit out of it to support wider society. I am myself a low earner and could certainly 'do' with the money but I am very happy for a large wedge to go into the pot to create a decent society from which I and my children will also benefit. Most people think I'm nuts though

I admire you, but sadly you are an exception. All my most uber-lefty friends, who rant about Tories and social injustice and how terrible underinvestment in our services are blah blah also want to preserve their inheritance and rile against any suggestion of any lessening of their economic advantage from the state. I have one such friend whose parent died recently and talks quite openly about how their lawyer is trying to come up with a wheeze to avoid some capital gains tax on the windfall she will get from property/ trusts fund and various other assets. Says she wants a socialist state but someone else should pay for it apparently.

Thanks @wednesdayweather. I am only an allright person but I do agree with you that there is a rather enraging disconnect amongst some of the loudest lefty types between what 'should' be done and what happens in their own financial scenario. But then, the vast majority of people underestimate the extent to which luck and an accident of birth has landed them with the fortunate position they have in life and really overestimate their own talents/work rate/contribution.

Punishing working people with punitive taxes is the lazy socialist way, not a progressive growth modes way to do things.

But Johnson's proposal to increase NI does this, and I don't think that he will ever be a socialist in a million years.

I'm private sector and haven't had a pay rise for 4 years.

Here we go.....🙄

Punishing working people with punitive taxes is the lazy socialist way, not a progressive growth modes way to do things

And what is a progressive growth mode when it's at home?

When will this come into force? Does anyone know please?

@sst1234

Yes OP, you are paying for the privilege of allowing others people to pass on inheritance to their children. It’s absolutely bonkers.

Agree with this.

Furious.

Ignore my question above please - I think it’s from next April.

Anyone calling for a VAT rise instead knows very little about taxation I’m afraid. Unless they want to hit the poor even harder?

I welcome the increase in taxes to pay for social care, but agree it should have been the highest earners who pay for it.

@Catatemyhomework

YANBU Op. Personally I think they should increase inheritance tax. A tax on the working poor is abhorrent. I say that as someone who will likely inherit one day.

They definitely need to review inheritance taxes and ensure that if us workers have to pay inheritance tax so should those at the top.

My mum died and few years ago and we had to pay 40% tax on the money over the threshold as she owned her own house. Fair enough I suppose although tough at the time as she died young in an accident so we were deep in grief.

At the same time that year the Duke of Westminster inherited £9 billion from his father and paid absolutely nothing as it was in trust 😡.

How is that a fair system?

@Florelei

When will this come into force? Does anyone know please?

April 2022.

Will we see a vote on Johnson's proposals? Will his Cabinet of nodding dogs duly vote it through or will some of them find that they have got backbones after all and vote against it? But then work to find other solutions.

Although this is not going to end up going to social care at all, it will disappear down another black hole without any improvement in services whatsoever, and anyone who thinks thing will improve are utterly barking mad.

I think there is a real risk that this doesn't go to improved service provision or higher wages for care staff, but rather into inheritance protection so the system won't improve at all.

I suspect there will be an announcement about caps on state pension soon. However, capping that at below the 8% projected rise is not really the same as a 1.25% National insurance increase above baseline.
They need to tax unearned income imo, this preserves the wealthiest

At the same time that year the Duke of Westminster inherited £9 billion from his father and paid absolutely nothing as it was in trust 😡.
How is that a fair system?

He employed tax lawyers. It's not unfair, just that most ordinary people don't do it. Or think of doing it.

This is disgusting. The younger lower-paid now face the burden of preserving the inheritance privileges of the older Tory voter pool.

Fucking hell.

I hope this tips some people over.

We need progressive taxes to pay for health and social care, not regressive, punitive ones.

@Bluntness100

It will be hard for many people, but there is a flip side is using the on thr nhs which I’m sure you know is struggling and a cap on care costs at 80k means so many people won’t loose their homes etc some of which aren’t worth much more.

I’m not sure what you earn but hopefully it’s on the region of twenty quid a month for you and you can find a way to make ends meet.

So her £20pm, when she's already struggling and working in an essential service, will go to fund someone's inheritance.

That's the bottom line and it's disgusting.

What happened to the supposed £350 million on the side of the bus or the millions we’d save leaving the EU, can that not fund this? Lol.

Are they changing it to a levy so anyone working now will pay if for the rest of their life even if they work past state pension age?

Also the cap penalises those with expensive homes, why not a %?

@Peregrina

Will we see a vote on Johnson's proposals? Will his Cabinet of nodding dogs duly vote it through or will some of them find that they have got backbones after all and vote against it? But then work to find other solutions.

Let’s see what drivel his cabinet is made up of. A Home Secretary who is too incompetent to manage the migrant crisis, a foreign secretary who is too incompetent to manage foreign affairs, an education secretary who is…well just a clown really because the word incompetent is a bit too complementary. Actual cabinet is only surpassed in idiocy by the pound shop shadow cabinet.