Gutted about NI rise

[CarryOnNurse20]

I know we need it and we have so much money to pay off. But we have been scrimping and saving after a hard couple of years. Every penny is accounted for from pay day to pay day. I’m a nurse and my pay has been capped/below inflation my whole career. And now the NI rise means any savings etc we have made will now be gone. I’m gutted.

I'm too old to earn enough to secure a healthy financial future through property, young enough to fear the years ahead where I will have to work to pay someone else's mortgage. It sucks.

"We are asking people on low incomes to pay more tax so that privileged kids can inherit expensive houses.”

A Tory MP said that? They're seeing the light.

Had my first mediocre pay rise in almost 8 years and this has just wiped that out.

‘A Tory MP said that? They're seeing the light.’

See the light, my arse. When this person gets in the chamber they’ll vote for this and worse. They always threaten to rebel but never do. Anyway why are they raising NI? Can’t they use the £350mn a week saved from Brexit?

True.

And indeed, to those who read the copied quote and responded. Same old thing though isn't it.

They won't vote against it if it's going to be part of the bigger budget. I suppose Labour could table an amendment.

Can the Lords interfere as it's not a manifesto commitment?

I am somewhat dismayed by the sentiment of some posters, this isn’t all about elderly people sitting on pots of gold whilst harping on about their entitlement.

Take a look www.communitycare.co.uk/2021/04/13/social-care-cuts-increased-charges-causing-huge-distress-disabled-people/

I was horrified to watch a very recent news story on TV about the dramatic rise in costs; a young woman trying to live independently was paying £98 a month for home help, overnight this increased to just under £500. A teenage boy, living at home with his parents, with severe disabilities was paying £20 a month for respite care for two nights per month, overnight this increased to £300 and his mother simply said they can’t afford it. The impact of these increased costs is huge and unsustainable.

This is tragic and I will happily see my NI contributions increase by more if it means that better social care support can be provided.

However, I do agree that targeting NI is less effective than increasing tax. Let’s not forget those who live off rental income too, perhaps council tax would be a better way of collecting monies from all households (if the council tax bands were fair and consistently applied in the first place...).

There is no ideal solution but doing nothing is not an option

Would be better to tax Capital Gains and Property.

The wealth gap in this country comes from people owning assets that are taxed at a lower rate than wages

It would only be better if you want to decrease the wealth gap @tttigress and I dont see any evidence that the current government find it a problem.

@Badbadbunny
"You were the one blaming the Conservatives, hence me asking what the only viable alternative, Labour, would do differently. Answers please!"

I wasn't "blaming the Conservatives". I was pointing out that they will always favour wealthier and older people, as that is what they see as their core vote, and of course they are funded by the very wealthy. People need to take that into account when choosing to vote for them. I don't speak for Labour. By referring to Labour as "the only viable alternative" you assume that the UK is forever locked into a two party system. I happen to think that the two party system is broken, but that's a whole other thread! Worrying that Conservatives only defence for their disastrous policies seems to be "look what Labour did 20 years ago"! Two wrongs have never made a right!

NI is a regressive tax. It doesn't hit pensioners as hard as tax does. It hits poorly paid people more than wealthier ones because the threshold is very low and they need their money for basic living expenses rather than extras. It also hits businesses hard via Employers NI and this has a knock on effect of perhaps lowering wages and/or raising prices, which again affects modestly paid workers disproportionately.

I’m a bit dismayed at some comments about rich pensioners and inheritance, as if these pensioners don’t deserve what they both worked for, scrimped for and yes, possibly got lucky on. My mother is comfortable- not rich but gets a decent pension, and constantly is proud she will leave me/my kids something - I don’t disabuse her but her care costs are £2000 a month at home so savings being used and not on any home improvements or luxuries - her house may have increased in value but so have all houses and she has to live somewhere and pay for that. As she is oop north her house will cover around 2-3 years care and so basically I have to guesstimate how long she would need one for if/when she needs one as moving her around from one to another is likely to hasten her ending. It’s fine she pays, it’s fine to use her house to pay too, but it’s also pretty harsh that she worked, planned, saved to see it run away so fast and be a big worry for how it can continue - she would also be upset if she knew how much she was getting through as rightly or wrongly she’s of the generation that saved and invested to both pay for herself and pass some on. I just don’t think we should assume the elderly are selfish for owning homes they hope to pass down. I’m fine with some paying in myself but on a fairer basis and I do get annoyed that there is money to be saved on vanity projects and political friends etc but we always take it from plebs. This divide and conquer by stirring division over such as the unemployed, immigrants etc, and now currently the elderly is seeming to work a bit too well sadly.

Cover 2-3 years in a care home I mean - she’s already having care in her own home.

I was annoyed but not surprised to be honest. I am just wondering where they will get the money for all the other things they have to finance. I don’t think this is the end of it.

it’s also pretty harsh that she worked, planned, saved to see it run away so fast

Don’t we all bro. That’s why we are encouraged to save, for things like this - why would you need to otherwise?

I’m not trying to be mean, I’m really not - but I don’t see why pensioners should be exempt from the ‘life’s not fair’ rules that we all live by.

@Halfaham

Absolutely sickening. I hope all the NHS and council workers follow the example of care workers and leave in droves.

Council workers leave? Why? To do some actual work elsewhere? Fat chance.

I’m not trying to be mean, I’m really not - but I don’t see why pensioners should be exempt from the ‘life’s not fair’ rules that we all live by

Pensioners over a certain income pay tax at the same rate as those in work.

The state pension is based on NI paid: they've already paid it.

I don't understand the logic of capping the maximum care bill at 86k. Surely this means that poorer people (whose homes may only be worth 86k) lose everything, while the rich (whose homes may be worth a million), lose very little. It would make more sense to do it the other way around so that there was a 'protected' amount (say 200k for example) that couldn't be touched, but anything over that amount goes towards paying for your care. No?

@echt

I’m not trying to be mean, I’m really not - but I don’t see why pensioners should be exempt from the ‘life’s not fair’ rules that we all live by

Pensioners over a certain income pay tax at the same rate as those in work.

The state pension is based on NI paid: they've already paid it.

It is now, but not for anyone over 68 - they can claim SP having never paid a penny in NI.

Blimey who are the 28% yabu on this thread? What's wrong with you? Society is screwed

The state pension is based on NI paid: they've already paid it.

You don't pay into a pot that gets saved for you. I've paid since I was 17 so by the time Im 68 I'll have paid for 51 yrs when I only need to pay 35 years. I can't opt out though.

It is now, but not for anyone over 68 - they can claim SP having never paid a penny in NI

Is it the full pension?

Would certainly benefit, and quite rightly, those who have been unable to work.

@MidnightMeltdown

I don't understand the logic of capping the maximum care bill at 86k. Surely this means that poorer people (whose homes may only be worth 86k) lose everything, while the rich (whose homes may be worth a million), lose very little. It would make more sense to do it the other way around so that there was a 'protected' amount (say 200k for example) that couldn't be touched, but anything over that amount goes towards paying for your care. No?

That's the whole point. Protect the rich. Sod the poor who aren't the typical tory voters anyway.

You don't pay into a pot that gets saved for you

I know.

However, if you have NIC gaps, you get less, so an element of "saving": does go on.

@echt

It is now, but not for anyone over 68 - they can claim SP having never paid a penny in NI

Is it the full pension?

Would certainly benefit, and quite rightly, those who have been unable to work.

Yes.

And yes it would, but it mostly benefits the women who ‘retired’ to have kids in their 20s, never worked a day again in their life, and now claim SP/fuel allowance/bus pass

But life isnt fair. I have no children, worked in a not particularly well paid job. No tax allowance. I received no benefits. I didn't earn enough to even go on holiday.
My friend was well off, her children were well provided for, all the latest tech, and she took long haul exotic holidays with them. She received child benefit.
I already pay into the pot, more per pound earned than parents, for children's education, health, local services, etc. And yet well off people receive a benefit on too of the,earnings. And you know what, there's a defeaning silence from parents about that.