Gutted about NI rise

[CarryOnNurse20]

I know we need it and we have so much money to pay off. But we have been scrimping and saving after a hard couple of years. Every penny is accounted for from pay day to pay day. I’m a nurse and my pay has been capped/below inflation my whole career. And now the NI rise means any savings etc we have made will now be gone. I’m gutted.

And the working poor in many areas will still rush to vote for them over some manufactured outrage culture war bullshit. Even if it means they can’t afford school shoes for their kids or are struggling to buy food.

I guarantee the Conservatives will still be ahead in the polls this time next week. They will just wheel out Priti Patel to stand wrapped in flag on a gunboat on the channel spouting something about law and order or they’ll wheel out some crank Muslim that nobody normally listens to to say something crazy about hating the Queen on the anniversary of 9/11 and job done. 9 points ahead.

And stop blaming all pensioners for voting Tory. Of MIL, DH, DB and myself, all pensioners, none of us voted Tory.

You can blame every single person who voted Tory in 2019, whether 18 or 80 plus. If they were daft enough to take the word of a known liar and cheat, more fool them.

@Blossomtoes

You can’t blame pensioners for the shitshow’s landslide majority. We’re not to blame for all the world’s woes. Blame everyone who fell for Get Brexit Done, blame the red wall for turning blue, blame all the people posting here in December 2019 who didn’t want to pay more tax - ha, that went well. I notice nobody’s owning up to voting Tory on here now, I wonder where they’ve all gone.

Regardless of everything you wrote, what matters is the votes, and the pensioners are the core of the Tory and Brexit voting base.

Younger people voting Tory/Brexit was like turkeys voting for Christmas

Older people voting Tory/Brexit did it to carry on feathering their own nests & enjoying a nostalgia trip, very much ‘I’m alright jack’

So yes I do blame them to a certain extent

@HopelessBlue192

Depends on if you supported lockdowns or not. If you did then YABU as the money had to come from somewhere. If you didn't then YANBU.

What absolute bollocks.

@Peregrina

And stop blaming all pensioners for voting Tory. Of MIL, DH, DB and myself, all pensioners, none of us voted Tory.

You can blame every single person who voted Tory in 2019, whether 18 or 80 plus. If they were daft enough to take the word of a known liar and cheat, more fool them.

I’m not blaming pensioners FOR voting Tory, I’m blaming pensioners WHO voted Tory (because the older you get the more likely you are to vote tory)

I personally think the red wall vote was a one time blip. To keep those votes this government needed to spend a lot of money in those areas very fast and very visibly. Come the next election it will be “What have the Tories done for us?”.

I’m blaming pensioners WHO voted Tory (because the older you get the more likely you are to vote tory)

Just blame everyone who voted Tory and leave pensioners out of it. I’m another pensioner who’d rather eat their own liver than vote for them and all my friends are the same.

A lot of younger people must also have voted Tory. Some constituencies in the south east have only had Tory MPs in the last 100 years or more. You can't say that they are all completely populated by pensioners.

Can we stop this nonsense about the wealthiest people being the hardest working.
You do not need to work at anything to have the priveledge of going Eton. Look at how many PMs and MPs have gone there.
The yearly fees without the cost of uniform etc are around the same as the average person working in the UK earns.
Most young people do not earn in a year what it costs to send a child to Eton.
That is out and out priviledge.
The friends of Carrie Johnson who have been given top jobs through nepotism have not worked tirelessly at all.
It's wealth and priveledge not hard work.

What we have here is this:
Those who have worked hard for a lower/average wage will be punished.
The wealthy , who often have done nothing at all in terms of sheer hard work and those who do not work and do not pay into the pot, will be the winners.

If the Opposition bothers to wake up, they can make political capital out of Johnson reneging on his election Manifesto. But of course, he has Covid as the excuse - which he will use shamelessly.

If the Opposition woke up, they’d get Andy Burnham back into parliament and elect him leader as fast as they could. I reckon he’d overturn that landslide at the first opportunity.

You do not need to work at anything to have the priveledge of going Eton. Look at how many PMs and MPs have gone there.

Quite Cameron, Johnson and Rees-Mogg do not impress as being hard workers.

Didn't Andy Burnham have a shot at the Leadership but didn't win?

@Peregrina

A lot of younger people must also have voted Tory. Some constituencies in the south east have only had Tory MPs in the last 100 years or more. You can't say that they are all completely populated by pensioners.

People are only talking generally, and aren’t incorrect about the population wide trend. In the 2019 election, the chance someone voted Tory increased by 9 percentage points with every 10 years of age. And Conservatives had a 47 point lead amongst voters aged 65 and above. Labour had a 43 point lead amongst voters aged 18-24 and a 24 point lead with those aged 25-34. (Figures from parliament.uk website)

@Peregrina

Didn't Andy Burnham have a shot at the Leadership but didn't win?

That was pre Corbyn if I remember correctly. It feels like ancient history now.

That was pre Corbyn if I remember correctly. It feels like ancient history now.

He ran in 2010 (came fourth) and in 2015 (came second).

Apparently the top 1% of private individuals in the UK hold about 23% of the total private wealth, which works out at roughly £3.36 trillion (£3,360,000,000,000 )

A flat 10% tax on just the 1% would net the government £336 billion, or around the same as 27 years worth of what the NI rise is expected to raise.

How anyone can think it's fair or justified for so few to have so much is beyond me.

But my point is that, for many illnesses (which the person concerned can't help getting), IF you're very lucky, you can get a continuing health care package. But that's not normally open to dementia patients because dementia is seen as a social care need, not a health need. Yet dementia is a disease that impacts your brain and its ability to allow you to look after yourself. If you get a continuing health care package all your care home fees are met. If you don't (and dementia patients normally don't) then you pay up.

It's not the 'leaving the house to the kids' issue that I think is unfair. My parents and PIL didn't have houses to leave and if DS doesn't get our house, well so be it. But there should be a levelling up across all aspects of health care - not 'we'll pay for you if you have this illness, we won't if you have this one'. No one asks to get cancer or have a stroke. No one asks to become or be born disabled or to have dementia. No one should be penalised because they get the 'wrong' type of illness. Nor should they be penalised by being moved if the money runs out. But they are and they do.

Well put @LondonJax

You do know that social care is for all forms of personal care and other practical assistance for children, young people and adults who need extra support.

IT IS NOT JUST FOR OLDER PEOPLE WHO NEED HELP!!!

Everyone going up in arms about the rise in N I must realise that children and young adults are included in this field of care.

It is not purely to save people from passing on their inheritance etc.
Think of the bigger picture, there are thousands upon thousands of children and younger adults who receive social care and probably will for their lifetimes, not just older people who need help at the end of their days.
Think of the costs involved in supporting children and younger adults for their entire lives, not just the costs of supporting someone at the end of their lives.
Would you say stop supporting children and younger adults???
Of course not!!!!!!!!!

I've never voted conservative ever , but I'm very much in the minority amongst my friends and family and friends I no longer see etc.

I do live in the south east though.

People are going on about wealthy pensioners, who when young lived in an entirely different society to now. My mother didnt work, but we went without holidays, clothes (hand me downs from cousins), cars (bus everywhere). And never had a meal out. They have of course benefitted from the housing boom in the 80’s, but that’s life. They got lucky in that respect. No private rentals back then, just council housing, so the reality was that most people had to invest in housing, and getting mortgages was far easier, as no credit referencing. People starting out now have the house, the car, the holiday, the trappings of modern life. And to go without these things would be unthinkable for a lot of young parents starting out now.

People will not vote Labour until they get slick and come up with a marketing campaign.
The truth is this: most humans are selfish, they do not want to pay an extra £2 or whatever to improve the NHS or for schools, or for improvements in local authority housing etc etc. They care only for that which benefits themselves or their own family.
They are quite happy to leave people in Afganistan as it's not their problem.
Lots of older people are quite happy to not pay to support those less fortunate than themselves, yet seemed shocked that they now have to fund their own care.

Agree that if you have a diagnosis of dementia your treated very much as second class citizen :(
It isn't fair and hasn't been for a long time.

@Livelovebehappy

People are going on about wealthy pensioners, who when young lived in an entirely different society to now. My mother didnt work, but we went without holidays, clothes (hand me downs from cousins), cars (bus everywhere). And never had a meal out. They have of course benefitted from the housing boom in the 80’s, but that’s life. They got lucky in that respect. No private rentals back then, just council housing, so the reality was that most people had to invest in housing, and getting mortgages was far easier, as no credit referencing. People starting out now have the house, the car, the holiday, the trappings of modern life. And to go without these things would be unthinkable for a lot of young parents starting out now.

Your mum never worked yet you could still afford to live reasonably as a family? That alone completely nullifies your point.

The NIC business is such a missed opportunity.

It won't fix anything. It won't improve anything. It is literally just a way to raise some money - but money alone will not magic up a proper plan to tackle the unfairnesses of health and social care and deliver what it takes to meet the needs of both.

The difficult bit is working about what health and social care of the future will be - but that's far too difficult a piece of work for this government.