If you start work at 9 am, is it OK to walk through the door at 9 am ?

[mmhhhkkkk]

Or is that a bit ' late ' ?

why is anyone even bothering to answer for other people's jobs?
it surely entirely depends on your type of role, actual job purpose, team structure, etc etc.

Jobs I had to be ready to start (not in the door) exactly on time
Waitress
Bar staff
NHS
Emergency services
Retail
Contact centre
Carer (that one I had to be at my first call for the start of my shift so had to travel there first)

In my office that wouldn't be an issue. Nor would leaving at 5pm on the dot. We trust everyone to get their work done and if it wasn't, being 3 minutes earlier or later leaving wouldn't make a difference.

Anywhere I've worked in the past, 8.50 would be expected, though.

@mmhhhkkkk

Or is that a bit ' late ' ?

I personally get there 10-15 minutes before so I can make a coffee to take to my desk. I don't turn on the PC until 9 though

@JustJustWhy

If you always walk in bang on time and always walk out bang on time it speaks volumes.

Oh gawd, you're one of THEM are you?

I haven't RTFT but I always hated this clock watching attitude at work. A new starter got in trouble for arriving on time each day rather than 5 minutes early even though his train arrival time would have to be half an hour earlier otherwise.
Then Covid happened and guess what - noone gives a fuck! Noone can see who has started when, noone can see if you pop for a tea or go for a walk or pick up your kids. As long as the work gets done that's all that matters and people have worked harder because of it. The feeling of trust is so valuable to people, it makes them want to do a good job.
We return to the office soon for part of the week and I can't imagine it returning to the old ways.

It really depends on a number of factors. It's not possible to say 9am is late. It depends on the role, the hours worked/unpaid overtime done just because it was needed and general work ethic. It's also about trust. I trust others to do their work and to a good standard. For me that means 'rolling in at 9:00' checking the rest of the team. That morning coffee is a chance to take the temperature of the work environment and to connect with others who need my support. I typically work 9.5-10 hours without any other coffee breaks and a 20 minute lunch. Then a couple of hours in the evening, more often than not (because it's needed, not expected). All unpaid overtime. (My contract is 7hrs a day). So anyone who says 9 is late can swivel. I'm top of my profession and my team are very happy. I work around my family as much as possible and a school run is part of that. Clock watching fascists can do one. We don't have time to check up on minutes worked. You can count up the extra hours I provide just because I want to do a good job (and be one if the best in my field). Having said this, there are undoubtedly folks who do the bare minimum, never go out of their way to add anything to the work environment, count everyone worked and make time to count the minutes others work. But they'll turn up early and cluck and tutt at others. Who do you think is the most productive, most wanted or most likely to add value....

If the job is 9am to whatever time, you should ready to be working fully at 9am I would say.

@ballroompink

Absolutely agreed! Reading this thread just took me right back to previous nightmare jobs with clockwatching managers ready to pull you up for taking one too many trips to the canteen or arriving 5 minutes late because of a delayed bus.

This exactly. ^

And these same manager-wankers never praise you or acknowledge you if you stay 20 minutes late, or come in 20 minutes early.

Power-crazy, control-freak, micromanaging cunts.

I got really irritated in an ASDA pharmacy last year. I had a prescription to pick up and I had somewhere else to be immediately afterwards. I was there and waiting before 9am

Bang on 9am and the Pharmacist and two assistants sauntered along and opened the metal screen. As soon as one was behind the counter I asked for my item but she snapped that she wasn't ready yet as she wasn't logged on to the till.

Thankfully the Pharmacist was a bit smarter and came over to help me. Had he not, I would have made a formal complaint.

Yes, you should be ready to start your job at 9am, particularly if you're working with the public and have defined opening hours.

Depends how long it takes you to get your coat off and get settled to work. I'd see it as being a bit late/ unprepared for the day tbh.

I wouldn’t expect to be operating my employer’s equipment in my own time. Switching on and logging in is work time.

For the office I worked at it would be fine, but we did have the opportunity to use flexi.
Public / customer facing jobs: no that’s late you need to be actually doing performing you role by 9

@spinachandchickpea I agree. The pettiness about 5 minutes is sickening. Who needs managers when you can police each other and pat yourself on the back for being the most present and on time of all :(

@JustJustWhy

If you always walk in bang on time and always walk out bang on time it speaks volumes.

God I'm glad attitudes like this are dying out.

I don't expect the people I employ to work a single minute more than what they're paid for - it's their job, what they do to pay for their life, and nothing more. Prizing people who routinely go beyond that creates a culture where you stay longer and longer hours to be seen as more dedicated is unhealthy and places work at the centre of people's lives. If your team can't get their work done in the amount of time a week you've given them to do it, you need to hire more people instead of exploiting tropes about loyalty and dedication to encourage unpaid work.

Nobody I employ will ever miss a promotion or be seen as less capable because they left on time, and I don't require loyalty from my staff. They owe me nothing but the work that they're contracted for. And frankly if they're leaving a few minutes before the end of the day sometimes because they've got everything done, good for them for being so efficient and I'd be more inclined to recognise their performance accordingly.

As long as people are being paid for the hours they attend the workplace and it is above NWM then forced start times are fine. If they are taking the piss, fine! Discipline them! The FACT is that you start working the moment you enter your workplace. If you have to change into uniform, that is the requirement of your workplace. You do not have to wait for your computer to wake up or finish updates. I am in a relatively senior post at my work & I am often caught in the car park before I get to my work station. In those cases, my start time is the time I am stopped.
It does of course depend on individual contracts however. I am shocked by the number of posters supporting unpaid overtime!

But you should have been paid for reasonable preparation time!

I think that, so long as you're at your workstation at 9, that's fine. Why should you be expected to wait for computers to boot up etc in your own time?

I don't believe in giving employers anything for free if there's no flexibility or trust shown. If everyone does 15 minutes overtime each day, it's not giving a true impression for resourcing purposes. And why be a mug.

If you were in my team and you did that we would be having a conversation about professional behaviour (NHS). But not all jobs are the same.

I consider my day has started once I've typed in my password and the time appears on the screen.

But I start any time between 8 and 10 (but in reality 9.30 at the very latest), I don't take exactly 60 minutes for my lunch and I don't leave exactly 8 hours after I logged on. I'll have busy weeks where I regularly work 13 hours a day and I wouldn't appreciate Sally in the chair next to me judging me for getting up to make a cup of tea.

In reality I've never encountered this pettiness in real life. It only ever seems to be present on Mumsnet where many seem to have a very outdated and martyred approach to work. I think many of those who say "computer warmed up by 9am" don't actually work themselves and falsely present themselves as Ms Corporate Professional.

I don't start a stopwatch every time I use the toilet or get a drink, or have a brief conversation with a colleague about their kids.

It's perfectly possible that the person who doesn't get up to make a coffee spends two hours a day just staring at a screen, whereas those who do spend two minutes in the kitchen work consistently.

This type of judgement really winds me up. We all know the pisstakers at work - and it's not because of the time they start.

If you are at your desk for 9.01 ready to work that's ok. If your make a coffee first, go to the loo, have a chat and then sit down at 9.30 then you are taking the piss.

Id say late
Where i worked you clocked in on your PC and hours were accounted for precisely so of you walked in at 9 and didn't log in until 9.05, that would be the time considered as you starting work.

I can't think of any job where you wouldn't go and stop a bag / coat or put on some sort of clothing or start some mechanism to signify you're about to start the day

Yes, you should be ready to start your job at 9am, particularly if you're working with the public and have defined opening hours.

I don't think anybody is disputing that, though. It's just that, if they need staff to do any preparation work, the employers running the business need to actually understand the basic nature of their own business.

If the shop opens at 9am and it takes a few minutes to boot up the till, open shutters or whatever, they need to employ (and pay) people from 8:50 - not try and guilt them or make them sick of the (justifiedly) annoyed customers who turn up at opening time and find that it's not open into working for free for 5-10 minutes every single day.

Schools acknowledge this when they hire (and set the paid hours for) lunchtime staff - just because you might only be serving the food to the kids for an hour's time-slot (or whatever), any idiot knows that you have to cook and prepare the food and serving area beforehand and then wash up and clear away afterwards, so you will need employees there for some time before and afterwards - and employees need to be paid for their work.

@UnchainedMemory

If you start at 9am, you should be on site by 10 to 9. Arriving at 5 to 9 is running late, because you won't be ready to start work by 9.

What!? Who on Earth do you think you are to tell others what time they "should" arrive on site?

You're not their manager, nor do you work at the same company or same desks.

My computer boots up almost instantaneously and it takes me around 1 minute to reach my desk after entering the building. That's two minutes max.

How dare you tell me that I'm running late if I turn up at 8.55am and sat logged on and checking emails by 8.58am.

I will turn up when it suits the business, my manager, my team and myself. Not a judgemental stranger.

Did the OP ever come back to the thread.

Who knew it was such a fascinating topic…