To think women can't have it all?

[0Cripes]

I'm pregnant with DC3 and due soon. My boss recently announced he was leaving at the end of this month on a 9 month secondment. His role is a natural progression for me and he has been teeing me up for it for 7 years. However, someone will backfill his role and gain experience for 9 months that I won't have a chance to get, therefore when the permanent position comes up (my boss has no intention to return) I'll be at a disadvantage.
If I wasn't going on mat leave I would stand a very good chance getting this role. I am annoyed as I feel I'm now at a disadvantage and my career is suffering because I've chosen to have a child. I appreciate that I still have the opportunity to apply but I'm pretty sure I won't get it knowing I'll be absent for 6 months of it!
I know the timings are nobodies fault but AIBU to be annoyed at this and think it's so hard for women to have kids and a successful career?

The question is whether she should have to accept that choice will impede her career progression.

In this situation I think k she need to accept this opportunity isn't available for someone who isn't going to be in work for the duration.

Regardless of the reason.

I think everyone acknowledges OPs point that you can't "have everything" but men with top careers certainly don't - they often see little of their children.

Xenia is a great example, she has pots of money and a very successful career, but to achieve that also opted for some v short maternity leaves and using a lot of childcare.

Sorry this is happening. Can you express your interest now and say you'd like to use some KIT days doing tasks/shadowing which relate to this role?

@mynameiscalypso with respect, the United States has the worst maternity leave provision of any developed country in the world. I'd hardly hold it up as a bastion of progressive or fair policy for working mothers (or women generally - hello, Texas abortion ban).

I'd hazard a guess that most American mothers who are forced back to work justweeks after giving birth don't consider themselves lucky that they're being afforded the ability to "have it all". Couple short maternity leave with expensive preschool childcare and all you get is parents, mostly women, forced to leave their jobs.

Op you are not wrong in the slightest.

This is bullshit.

I say that as someone who had severe hyperemesis to term and lost my job over it.

Choosing to have a third child and choosing to take long parental/maternity leaves can have consequences for careers. Yes of course, (most) women need to recuperate in the weeks after giving birth, but they don’t need 9-12 months to do that. It’s a choice.

As I said before, the workplace is unfair for women in loads of ways, but in this particular situation, a man planning extended parental leave would also likely be passed over. He’d need to make a choice as to what to focus on at that point in time; career or family.

If you are treated fairly, you apply for it now and they cover your leave as a secondment.
I have done this (as the hirer) before.

I think it’s possible but not easy, much harder for women, and very much dependent on whether you can earn enough to make the juggle bearable.

I was in the same position as you OP when I was 6 weeks pregnant (2nd child) in 2017 what then looks like the perfect job came up. Big promotional - essentially as senior as you can get in my field at a company where I had been a few years. I thought about applying but knew I’d never beat out the (5 years younger but not pregnant) man. He was also very well qualified for the job.

I recently got a new job, same level as the other one but actually a position in much better suited for. DH works FT too in a similar job ti me.

I’v done every combination of full-time, part time, flexi work, under the sun since my first chil was born in 2014. I think part time work is a trap for women. But you need real flexibility to make a career work. We also pay to outsource a LOT which I know is a privilege.

My (long-winded) point is that your career is a marathon not a sprint and if you’re still in the baby years you still probably have 30 years to get that promotion 😩

[quote Mybobowler]@mynameiscalypso with respect, the United States has the worst maternity leave provision of any developed country in the world. I'd hardly hold it up as a bastion of progressive or fair policy for working mothers (or women generally - hello, Texas abortion ban).

I'd hazard a guess that most American mothers who are forced back to work justweeks after giving birth don't consider themselves lucky that they're being afforded the ability to "have it all". Couple short maternity leave with expensive preschool childcare and all you get is parents, mostly women, forced to leave their jobs.[/quote]
I wasn't holding the US up as an example of good practice - just pointing out the reality. The right to (paid) maternity leave for 9 months and the ability to take leave for up to a year, as we have in the UK, is a position of immense privilege and one that millions of women around the world don't have. I think we are incredibly lucky to have that choice to make (for the most part, I appreciate for some people it's not that easy). Posters saying that a woman can't possibly go back to work after 6 weeks are ignoring the reality for millions and millions of women.

I think you chose a larger than average family, and as a result will have up to 12 months (depending how much maternity leave you take) less current/up to date experience than your colleagues, it would be unfair on them if this was ignored. If you have vastly more overall experience and more varied experiences than others than presumably you can apply for the management post when it becomes substantive, and get it if you are the best candidate at the time.

I'm a paramedic and the nature of the job means that we can't work our frontline role when pregnant, if 12 months maternity leave is then taken, plus accrued leave and then the necessary return to work training it is possible to be away from our normal role for almost 2 years. If a women has 2 kids in quick succession I wouldn't expect her/me to be treated the same, in terms of progression, as a paramedic who qualified the same time as me but had work all the way through, male or female.

You pays your money, you takes your choice.

I stuck at 2DC (pre-teen now) and took a much shorter maternity leave so could really go for it in my career. But I haven’t as the job is pretty well paid and I much prefer being PT to working round the clock (albeit for a significantly higher salary) and missing out on being the one to do every school pick up etc. This means my DC and I are extremely close and we still get to go on great holidays etc but our forever home is (at least for the time being) out of reach.

Apart from the immediate aftermath of childbirth, the only real difference for men is that they just don’t have the same emotions/expectations re spending time with their children over lots of time at work. I think most men would bung the kids into full time plus childcare without a second thought if it were up to them. Unfortunate timing but you now need to decide how much this promotion is worth to you vs a long maternity leave.

@Babyroobs

Take a short mat leave or share with your partner.

Yes this makes the most sense.

It feels so pressureful when u are in your 30s/early 40s and having kids/ trying to keep your career progression going. But honestly careers are a long game. Plenty of time to pick it up again in your later 40s, 50s and if anything having a 'break' (🤣🤣 if you can call maternity leave that) can be good for you workwise as it gives you fresh perspective, time to think outside the box. So I suggest enjoying your DC3, OP, enjoy this phase of your life, accept your career trajectory will be a little less steep for the next few years, but know that the opportunities will arise again in the future. Also, I would consider telling HR/senior person that u really want to apply for your boss's job when it comes up. That way you are still in the running and can decide when it comes up. If you already have 2 DC and are working well then your seniors will know that one more DC will not affect that. But equally it is fine if u decide to let this opportunity pass u by. There will be others. (Also I cannot imagine any woman who has had a baby seriously suggesting returning to work at 2 weeks or even 6 weeks. No career is worth it. Yes, you could probably drag yourself in but what loss to the baby and you. In a civilised society we should all be able to prioritise maternal and baby health)

I feel like you can have it all but you either have to have a very supportive partner or get a nanny/au pair. My DP has been very supportive of my career (met at uni 25+ years ago). I took 6 weeks maternity leave when I had twins and he became a SAHD for a few years, and then went back part time then full time. I also didn't want any more than 1 pregnancy as I didn't want to take more time away from work.

I think you are suffering from unfortunate timing, but 3 pregnancies will add up timewise if you're several months with each.

Surely your partner can take the parental leave this time?

@EL8888

Don’t go on maternity leave then, take 2 weeks or so and go back. We all have choices

This is crazy 😂 What happens to the 2 week old baby then? Who's doing the night shifts with the newborn?

Also, If OP had a csection, she'll be unable to walk properly after 2 weeks let alone go to work.

It takes 9 months for our bodies to grow babies, bodily functions don't just go back to normal in 2 weeks. Birth trauma is real and the effects of childbirth of women's bodies can be extensive.

6 weeks is a more reasonable time to take off work. You could return to work after 6 weeks IF you want to. Even that is still a challenge. That's provided you've sorted out childcare for your newborn.
Let's face it, no one can cope with the sleeping schedule of a newborn and go to work full time.
My daughter is 3 weeks old and I feel like a zombie by the time it's 5am because I've been up almost all night feeding and settling her.

I agree with you OP, it's a common unconscious bias women face in the workplace unfortunately.

Pay for a nanny or an au-pair and return to work the week after giving birth.

You chose to be pregnant, you chose to take maternity leave. The world doesn’t stop because you’re busy. You pay your money and you make your choices. You decide if maternity leave or promotion is the more important to you.

But don’t expect your job to wait around for you. Then again, don’t cry when you blink and you have three adult children and you can’t remember attending a sports day or a Christmas Carol concert. Yes, you can’t have it all, but neither can anybody else, men included.

@HTH1

You pays your money, you takes your choice.

I stuck at 2DC (pre-teen now) and took a much shorter maternity leave so could really go for it in my career. But I haven’t as the job is pretty well paid and I much prefer being PT to working round the clock (albeit for a significantly higher salary) and missing out on being the one to do every school pick up etc. This means my DC and I are extremely close and we still get to go on great holidays etc but our forever home is (at least for the time being) out of reach.

Apart from the immediate aftermath of childbirth, the only real difference for men is that they just don’t have the same emotions/expectations re spending time with their children over lots of time at work. I think most men would bung the kids into full time plus childcare without a second thought if it were up to them. Unfortunate timing but you now need to decide how much this promotion is worth to you vs a long maternity leave.

I think that's actually really unfair on a lot of men and perpetuates stereotypes, therefore doing nothing to help the problem for anybody.

My DH has WFH since DD was one (prior to covid and lockdown). He makes her lunch everyday when she isn't in preschool and bikes her to school whenever the weather is okay and he can fit it around his schedule. I think for a lot of men they and society perceive that there isn't a choice and just follow the status quo.

It all needs to change for everyone's sake.

You've chosen to have a third baby though? You must have realised that would have some impact on your career? I don't think women can have it all.

This isn’t a woman issue as such, it’s just bad timing for you but you chose to have a third child and take a long maternity leave. If it’s a job you want then let your DH take the leave and you go back to work.

Well I’m another at many of these ‘it’s your choice buttercup so suck it up’ replies.

As if any man has to choose between his 3rd child or his career?! No acknowledgement by many PP’s of high, and limited, child care costs including the high costs of a nanny or the absolutely existing sexism that is structurally baked in to practically every workplace.

Jesus what happened to the sisterhood? Yes of course OP YANBU. Our market economy relies on two income earners and study after study after study demonstrates that it’s women who bear the brunt of this. Was no one paying attention to what happened in the bloody wfh pandemic?

And interestingly not one mention by PP’s that it is, on balance, much better for the baby to be at home with it’s mother for at least a year, if not longer. There needs to be so many changes for women to be able to be a parent and not disadvantaged in their careers in the UK.

Yes, it’s a choice to have children but most men do not have to choose between having a family or a career and that is the issue here.

One of the ways I've tried to "balance it all" (my definition of all being having kids, having a successful career, happily married, being financially comfortable and generally happy with all of that) was to stop at 2 kids. Having 3 kids is always going to sway your balance more towards your family, if you'd stopped at 2 you'd be available for this opportunity, we all know the impact maternity leave can have on careers so going out for an additional year is bound to have an impact and challenge the balance. That's not to say it can't be done but of course it'll be harder and of course around pregnancy/maternity when you are particularly bound.

That said, I'm sure there will be other opportunities, I've personally always changed employers to take up opportunities because it would take too long to get promoted if I stayed where I was. It will be a challenge with 3 kids but just because this opportunity might not be available doesn't want there won't be another.

If anyone wants to suggest that the current system of presentism and long work hours also harms men and negatively impacts on their family ties and mental health, I’d completely agree, but that’s a different thread topic.

Yes, it’s a choice to have children but most men do not have to choose between having a family or a career and that is the issue here.

Well no, it’s not really the issue. The OP had a family already but feels it is unfair that she missed out on a promotion opportunity because she chose to have a third child.

You can have children and a successful career, you just can’t have as many children as you want and a successful career.

Well men can’t have it all in that sense either - they can’t take 9 months off paternity leave and get the same career progression.

You can return at 2/4 weeks post partum and either get a nanny or your partner takes parental leave. You can bottle feed or express. I’ve got a couple friends who did this, and it’s the norm in many countries.

You have the choice of which is more important- immediate temporary career progression which will stand you in good stead for future roles, but guarantee nothing, or 6 months at home with the new baby.

Tough choice, but I made it, opted to stay at home for a year, it was tough but I’ve got my career back on track now and I’m thriving, amd I don’t regret for one second the time I was off with my babies.

You can just take two weeks mat leave and return? And have husband have parental leave?
You can have ‘it’ all- but it is difficult and you’ll have to compromise on everything. As previous poster mentioned- it depends on what your definition of ‘it’ is. I’ve got a successful career, a happy home with DD and hubby. But I’ve had to make choices. Unfortunately that’s life.
Having baby in nursery/childminder at a young age is difficult but doesn’t do them long term harm. I was raised in A different country with a nanny and yet I’m still incredibly close to my parents. It’s just emotionally very hard and youve got to follow head and logic rather than the heart and emotion.short term vs long term goals? whatever you chose, make sure you are absolutely happy with the choice and don’t second guess yourself. X