To think women can't have it all?

[0Cripes]

I'm pregnant with DC3 and due soon. My boss recently announced he was leaving at the end of this month on a 9 month secondment. His role is a natural progression for me and he has been teeing me up for it for 7 years. However, someone will backfill his role and gain experience for 9 months that I won't have a chance to get, therefore when the permanent position comes up (my boss has no intention to return) I'll be at a disadvantage.
If I wasn't going on mat leave I would stand a very good chance getting this role. I am annoyed as I feel I'm now at a disadvantage and my career is suffering because I've chosen to have a child. I appreciate that I still have the opportunity to apply but I'm pretty sure I won't get it knowing I'll be absent for 6 months of it!
I know the timings are nobodies fault but AIBU to be annoyed at this and think it's so hard for women to have kids and a successful career?

@christinarossetti19

StrangeToSee the problem with the suggestion that the lesser earning partner should pull out the stops to support the higher earning partners work isn't disturbed is structural sexism, meaning that women, on average, are paid less.

Of course there are exceptions as detailed in this thread, but that argument is essentially saying that women should put up and shut up to support a male higher earner.

And even if the female partner does earn less, I don't agree that it follows that her job and what it means to her is less important than her male partners.

OP, yes pregnancy and child-rearing do inhibit career development. It sucks. In your position, I would speak with your boss about your concerns and ask if there's any way you can gain valuable experience before you go on mat leave.

So agree with this. I have a relative who is a vet nurse - low pay for a skilled job, in short supply, working evening/nights/weekends, sometimes life or death stuff. Her DH earns more as a self employed tradesman, and will expect her to suddenly change plans to collect their kids from school or beg a friend to do it, if an opportunity for a job comes up on an afternoon he’s having the kids. She can’t just walk out on an anaesthetised or critically ill animal, but he doesn’t value or respect her job at all.

It's an interesting question as to how jobs are valued. What if the surgeon mentioned by @StrangeToSee above happened to be married to an investment banker who earned multiples of the surgeon's salary? Should the higher earner's job still take priority?

I'm glad I had DS young. I was 24 took 16 weeks maternity and got back to work. Partly due to financial pressure, but I'm so glad I did because a few weeks after I had returned a promotion came up, and I got it. My career has gone from strength to strength. I was 24, young for and healthy, I managed night feeds and full time work because I had that spring of a 20 year old.

I'm a lone parent also, so between family and full time nursery I just made it work.

Weirdly now being in my early 30's where some women are only now considering having children I think "fuck no, I'm too old and too tired for that again!" I need my sleep!

I know plenty of people in some of the jobs that you've mentioned as well as other comparable roles who have managed to progress extremely well in their careers without the support of a low earning partner or SAHP to carry the load at home. Men and women who are ambitious, successful and serious about their careers, who also want to play an active role in family life and who respect that their partners might also want to progress. Where there is a will, there is a way. I speak from my own experience.

It’s encouraging this is your experience. And it sounds like your company is very empathetic to work-life balance and employees needing time off for kids. I wish there were more CEO like you!

My experience has been rather different. When I was FT nobody prevented me from taking sudden leave when DC were ill or leaving early to pick up an ill DC from school. But it was heavily frowned upon as it caused a lot of stress to an already over-stretched team (NHS).

DH works in a male dominated environment where all the higher managers have SAHPs. He’s responsible for a lot of people so if he leaves work suddenly (eg if I said I couldn’t) he’d get people saying why can’t your wife do it? And unfortunately that does hamper his career progression. Since I reduced my hours to fit around his he’s been able to focus fully on work. When he’s not working he pulls his weight fully at home, entertaining DC, cooking, steam mopping, gardening etc

But I try to encourage him to relax too as I know what it’s like doing a stressful FT job then coming home to a heap of housework.

Our DC are far better behaved since I reduced my hours, but I think that’s because I’m nolonger frazzled and snappy. I have time to play with them before and after school, walk them to school instead of bundling them into the car for breakfast club and stressing over what I need for work etc. I’m sure some women manage all this easily, as you say, but I didn’t.

I think a lot of you work in office type roles on PAYE for good companies.
Many roles require you to be there at certain points for safety reasons or because thats when the service is delivered. If you arent there the business doesnt operate at all not just your tiny bit of work gets pushed to tomorrow.

@Elephantsparade from my perspective you're right. Myself and partner both in an office job, and most of our friends are. With the exception of big deadlines / projects, client meetings or presentations, I reckon other times it's easier to be flexible. If one of us needs to dash off for an emergency, we can just work remotely that night to make the work up. If you are for example the surgeon, nurse, or vets assistant that we're talked about earlier, not as easy I'd imagine

@FrankButchersDickieBow

It depends what an individuals 'it all', is.

I feel like I have 'it all.

I am early 40's. Married. One dd. Job that is excellent wages, just moving into our forever home. Ample money to gut and do everything we want.

My 'it all', isn't promotions, career advancement, bigger house etc.

We are happy in our marriage, money enough for what we want, not rich by any means, but you can't buy happiness with money or a better job.

Working 32.5hrs per week with some from home work, so I can be home when my daughter comes home from school every day. Husband happy in his job.

This is 'it all' for me.

@FrankButchersDickieBow

What a lovely post from you

I feel I'm in a similar position. Happily doing a job I enjoy, earning enough to do most of the things we really want to do. I'm aware that several friends and colleagues earn more, but they've made big sacrifices for that

OP, I sympathise with your situation. The timing sounds really unfortunate. My generation were told we could have it all, and experience suggests otherwise

"Where there's a will, there's a way."

Sorry, not buying this. However much 'will' a person has, it's luck if they haven't suffered the effects of structural sexism, ableism, racism, ageism and every other conscious and unconscious bias that keeps white, able-bodied men earning more and having more power than other social groups.

I think men have it just as hard but on the flip side! Women generally are the ones that miss out on career options but men generally are the ones missing out on bills of their kids lives in the early days. For example, I missed out on a store manager role at work because of my maternity leave, but my DH missed our daughters first word, roll over, crawl and pulling herself up on furniture amongst other things which he was devastated about. I think actually men have it worse as there's always other jobs and opportunities, but your kids first only happen once.

I think if both parents want to work FT and can afford childcare, share school runs and holiday arrangements, both happy to share cooking and household stuff etc, it CAN work, especially if they have flexi hours, wfh allowances, understanding managers etc.

But something has to give. When DH and I were both FT, the impact on the DC was the most upsetting factor. It was ok at nursery but they didn’t like wraparound care from school (they’d see their friends go home at 3 and they had to wait until at least 6pm). They started to resent my job, saying ‘other mums’ didn’t work as much. I felt awful sending them to holiday club and half term childcare, like I was prioritising my career over them. Had they been keen to go it would have been different but they just wanted to play at home.

I appreciate not everyone can leave a job and wait until a term-time only, part time role comes up. But when I did I was shocked how much they clung to me and how disbelieving they were initially that I wasn’t going to leave them again.

Yep, being able to work flexibly when my children were younger was what kept me self-employed for so long.

One of my children was very, very attached to me (still cried at school drop off until Y2) and I was fortunate that I only needed holiday play schemes and after school care on a part-time basis.

I don't regret my choices for a moment, but I am finding it hard to get a job now, and am definitely disadvantaged by missing years of 'networking'.

@StrangeToSee

I think if both parents want to work FT and can afford childcare, share school runs and holiday arrangements, both happy to share cooking and household stuff etc, it CAN work, especially if they have flexi hours, wfh allowances, understanding managers etc.

But something has to give. When DH and I were both FT, the impact on the DC was the most upsetting factor. It was ok at nursery but they didn’t like wraparound care from school (they’d see their friends go home at 3 and they had to wait until at least 6pm). They started to resent my job, saying ‘other mums’ didn’t work as much. I felt awful sending them to holiday club and half term childcare, like I was prioritising my career over them. Had they been keen to go it would have been different but they just wanted to play at home.

I appreciate not everyone can leave a job and wait until a term-time only, part time role comes up. But when I did I was shocked how much they clung to me and how disbelieving they were initially that I wasn’t going to leave them again.

I appreciate that this was your experience, but it isn't necessarily representative. We were in the fortunate position of not needing to use wrap around care at all during the primary school years, despite both working FT, so there are lots of different models that can work.

As it happens, my very extroverted dd used to cry about not going to afterschool because she felt left out of all the fun stuff that her friends were doing! Sometimes you just can't win!

I don't think you can ask the world to stop for nine months.

[quote PlanDeRaccordement]@Hekatestorch
No, op hasn’t changed her name, I read same as you but everywhere I have worked, the manager picks who from their subordinates is seconded to fill their position while their management advertise and hire the permanent position. And since she said he’s being teeing her up for 7 yrs to take that secondment, and I presumed he’s the decision maker as to who fills that secondment, I read that it is hers for the taking. And if I were her I’d take it and not worry about the maternity leave. Some experience in that role is better than none, and if she does a great job before the baby comes, they could miss her and want her for it on permanent basis on her return.[/quote]
He has teeing her up for tbe perm role.

The op didn't say this secondment was hers. She has said anything about how it will be chosen.

I have never worked anywhere the person picked their own replacement.

Plus pp definitely didn't say he said it was hers if she wants it.

And quite frankly, most people won't want to fill a secondment twice. It's not discrimination because Op won't be there the same months the secondment is available. They can offer it and say 'if you want to take short mat leave and we will get cover for a few weeks, then you do it the rest of the time' they have done all they can.

Op can not fill a secondment and have mat leave at the same time. Which is why her bos hasn't told her it's hers. Even if he could

I appreciate that this was your experience, but it isn't necessarily representative. We were in the fortunate position of not needing to use wrap around care at all during the primary school years, despite both working FT, so there are lots of different models that can work

True, there are different models. Yet very few parents I know both work FT with a young family, and it’s well known that many women can’t afford childcare when their children are young (putting a baby into nursery is around £60 a day here). Factor in a second or third child; once the eldest starts school that can mean breakfast club, after school club and holiday clubs. Unless you and DH tag team your AL or have a job with VERY flexible hours. Or of course family to help out.

Some kids enjoy wraparound care (like yours) but some hate it. Some are happy to go to after school club a couple of days a week but not every day (11 hours in school is a long day for a young child).

Also plenty of women choose to go part time or take a career break in the early days, and I don’t think that’s wrong either. Many prefer to focus on raising their DC to progressing their career, and can do so comfortably if their DH is a high earner.