To think women can't have it all?

[0Cripes]

I'm pregnant with DC3 and due soon. My boss recently announced he was leaving at the end of this month on a 9 month secondment. His role is a natural progression for me and he has been teeing me up for it for 7 years. However, someone will backfill his role and gain experience for 9 months that I won't have a chance to get, therefore when the permanent position comes up (my boss has no intention to return) I'll be at a disadvantage.
If I wasn't going on mat leave I would stand a very good chance getting this role. I am annoyed as I feel I'm now at a disadvantage and my career is suffering because I've chosen to have a child. I appreciate that I still have the opportunity to apply but I'm pretty sure I won't get it knowing I'll be absent for 6 months of it!
I know the timings are nobodies fault but AIBU to be annoyed at this and think it's so hard for women to have kids and a successful career?

I don’t disagree that you can’t have it all but in this specific situation it is just a timing thing. You’re not going to be there. If a man had taken a career beak to go travelling, he wouldn’t be around to take up the opportunity either.

Depends on what 'have it all' means to you.

Can you have everything you want, exactly when you want it? No, because one can.

Can you have a full on career, spend as much time with your kids as a sahp, see your friends 2-3 nights a week, never miss a work night out, spend loads of time with your partner, hit the gym most day etc. No. Because, again, no one can.

People can feel they have it all, but other people will think they don't. I don't have the glittering social life with lots of nights out every month. But I do have a family and a good job. I have a fairly quite life and think I have all I want.

When I became a single parent and the kids were young, I couldnt keep my foot on the pedal with my career I needed to focus on my home life. Now they are older I can focus on my career again.

But even then when the kids were young I felt like I had it all. Because it was what I wanted and needed at the time.

Its absolutely possible to have a great career and move up and have kids. But you can't also get those months of experience, of you aren't in work. Any one taking a large amount of time off work, will miss out on something. You can have the career and kids. But you can't be there if you aren't there.

The more kids you have, the harder it tends to be and you do need support form either you partner or paid support.

Op if you want this experience, there's a choice you have to make. Either pass it up OR take a very short mat leave. It may be frustrating for you, but it is your choice. And there's no shame in deciding one or the other.

We are happy in our marriage, money enough for what we want, not rich by any means, but you can't buy happiness with money or a better job.

What a very sensible response. How did we get to the stage where a great job is the measure of happiness? How did we get to the stage where everyone has to "have it all"?

@gofg

We are happy in our marriage, money enough for what we want, not rich by any means, but you can't buy happiness with money or a better job.

What a very sensible response. How did we get to the stage where a great job is the measure of happiness? How did we get to the stage where everyone has to "have it all"?

This is so true. For my, having it all means having the freedom to choose (in the knowledge that different choices will have different sacrifices)

Sorry but this is a ridiculous post- you can’t have a job when you won’t be there for 6 months- duh! Not to mention you are choosing to have 3 kids, you’ve overwhelmed yourself. Biologically shocking that men can’t have children!

A friend of mine went back after 2 weeks Mat leave
She is very ambitious and driven and is right at the top of her profession
Her partner quit work and was the SAHP
There is always an element of personal choice
My DH and I both went down to 3 days when the children were born
We earned much the same and still do
No way I would have tolerated giving up my career
We possibly would have had more money if I had stayed home and my husband had focused on his career 100% but that wasn't for us

I know what you mean OP. I’ve experienced something similar. I think the difficulty is that often the best career opportunities present themselves in your 30s or early 40s, which is also the time a lot of women are having children. And taking any length of time, whether that’s 3, 6, 9 or 12 months, out of the workplace during that time is a serious impediment to progression.

I’m very glad I left having children till my mid 30s because I’m earning much better and have more financial stability than I was in my 20s. But the flip side of that decision has been that it’s been much more difficult to pursue opportunities in the past few years and I haven’t progressed in the way I think I probably would have done if I hadn’t had children.

You can still apply despite going on maternity leave. They can’t discriminate against you on the basis that you’re taking leave.

I find the Daily Mail-esque comments about how the OP made a choice to have a child really odd. Of course it was a choice. She acknowledges that in her OP. The question is whether she should have to accept that choice will impede her career progression.

And as for going back after two weeks - yes, she could. Yes, women have no statutory right to paid maternity leave in the US (although it’s determined on an employer by employer basis - I work for a US employer and they offer 6 months fully paid maternity). But maternity leave is there for a reason - would that be the best thing for her and her baby’s short and long term welfare? Probably not. So she has to make a choice between her career, and her and her baby’s welfare.

You’ll need to take a shorter maternity leave OP and convince them of this in advance.

I’m in Switzerland and maternity leave is 3 months here, which I am perfectly fine with. If you want to take more time, that’s up to you but it’s a choice with associated consequences.

There are a myriad of different ways in which the world and workplace are unfair for women, but this particular situation is not so clear-cut. A man in the same position as the OP who was planning 9 months of parental leave would also likely be passed over for this role too.

Essentially, the timing here means you can’t expect to simultaneously be on ‘extended’ parental leave and on a temporary work secondment for promotion. A man couldn’t expect to either. You’ll have to compromise somewhere.

YANBU

Women can never have it all, it's an urban myth generated to keep us in our box and beat us with, as demonstrated even on mumsnet.

Men do not ever have to make a choice to return to work within weeks of giving birth. And even though both partners want and plan a baby, women do the hard part and make the most sacrifices.

Its temporary op. Most women are done with the actual baby production part by age 40 for biological reasons. There are then a clear 25 years where you can develop your career.

You can have both a family and a career. What you can't really do is have a young family whom you are focusing on AND be at the the pinnacle of a glittering career, at exactly the same time, whether you are a man or a woman.

Thing is though that you’re having three children and therefore three maternity leaves. Taking that much time out of your career is going to hold you back a bit compared to your colleagues who don’t choose to do this. It’s not unfair, it’s a choice to have children, a choice to have three and a choice to take a long mat leave.

If you really want this opportunity then take one months mat leave and go for the job.

One of my colleagues recently took only 13 weeks off for mat leave.

That used to be the norm.

You don't have to have a year off. 🤷🏼‍♀️

@Faevern

YANBU

Women can never have it all, it's an urban myth generated to keep us in our box and beat us with, as demonstrated even on mumsnet.

Men do not ever have to make a choice to return to work within weeks of giving birth. And even though both partners want and plan a baby, women do the hard part and make the most sacrifices.

I think the point that a lot of posters were making is that nobody can have it all - every decision you make has consequences and for everyone, those decisions and what they decide to prioritise are going to be different. I think the mantra that anyone can have it all is damaging.

It was your choice to have a third child. If you’d stopped at 2 you would still have kids and a successful career. I think you’re being a bit entitled tbh.

Also as previous posters said you chose to have 3 DC. 3 year long maternity leaves would set anyone back. No one made you do it.

But you don't need a year off work everytime. You can have it all if you go back to work after 3 months or less.

Fucking stupid comments about men not being able to have it all!
Men don't actually need time off work to give birth and recover from pregnancy and birth. If nursing then men can do fuck all to feed the baby so those are stupid unhelpful remarks.

It is so, so tough OP. The baby/small child years are short but have an enormous impact on our careers long term. It isn't fair but I do think when I'm old and grey I'm more likely to regret not being more present with my kids than I will be disappointed if I don't make it to the top job-wise. Having said that, we will br working for such a long time that there's probably an extra decade of work than the generation before us!

And it's shit luck timing, you could apply anyway because it shows willing and demonstrates that you are keen to progress?

But having it all is not just about having a baby (which, in terms of length of time isn't a massive stretch). It's about all the other choices we have to make in life to prioritise work/family/hobbies/whatever.

Funny how can't have it all also means you can't have any of it. Most houses suitable for raising a family require two incomes to pay the mortgage or rent. So you need to work if you have children. You just can't progress in your career. You don't get to fully do mothering or fully do the career, you just get stretched like pizza dough for a decade or more.

Dont take such a long mat leave then

This is just unfortunate timing OP. Still apply you may still get. Or take a short maternity leave and your partner takes the rest?

But I was really focused on my career the simple answer is I wouldn’t have a third child. Harsh but three years out at such a career building point, not to mention the inevitable extra time off etc a third child requires is showing you are making a different choice, which is fine but you will miss out on things I’m afraid.

Christ some of these replies are baffling, all this what about the menz shit too.

Op you are not wrong in the slightest.

@Faevern my DH does just as much child rearing and also works part time. We split evenly. So you are perpetuating the men are useless stereotype which is unfair and unhelpful.

I think that we were told we could “have it all” at a time when it was all still a theory. We were no longer going to face legal barriers to employment, we would be supported by legal protection during and after pregnancy and we were at least as well educated as men. But theory and practice are poles apart!

Every choice has an impact: from having another beer rather than redrafting that essay at uni to having a child at 25, 35 or not at all. That part of having it all was never mentioned- but it was assumed knowledge.

I was (very nicely) passed over for promotion as I would have not been available to train into the job- I’d have had to be up and running on the day I returned from may leave. It stung at the time, but it was just crappy timing. The person who got the job was there in the building when I wouldn’t have been. Not much that I could do about it: the choice to continue with my surprise pregnancy has an impact. I don’t think about it now. Hadn’t thought about it for years until I read this thread. Nearly 17 years later it’s just past history.

@Thethingswedoforlove

Do you feel the same about men? I get it. But men are increasingly facing the same issues/ conflicts. And that has to be a good thing. Perhaps it is more than individuals can’t have it all? We have to make choices and do our best?

Oh Jesus.

Men are not physically compelled to take time off. They have more choice.
🤦

Plenty of people in other countries go back after a few weeks - 6 weeks is considered a long maternity leave in the US. In the UK, we're lucky enough that we have the ability to have a longer leave and we're used to people have 6/9 months plus but it's not necessarily the norm

And yet the US has much higher rates of breastfeeding than the UK, so a lot of new mothers must be combining breastfeeding with working. Maybe look into how they do it, probably pumping? I think you have a right to be given time and space to do this at work if you need to, plus milk storage facilities.

It's unfortunate timing for you, but the fact is that you're not available at the time someone is needed in this role, but if you really want it, you need to offer a solution that involves a much shorter maternity leave so you can do it.