to think NHS Staff have got amazing terms and conditions?

[backoffice]

I've left the NHS to go back to the private sector after 15 years. I've been reflecting a lot on my time in the NHS and something in particular that has struck me time and again are the great terms and conditions that really get people stuck in the service, so they can't leave.

In my organisation over 1/3 of staff were Band 7 or above (40-45k). Many had been in the service for many years. Statistically almost half of NHS staff are earning over 31k (band 6 or above).

The pension accrual at this level is the equivalent of an additional £15-20k contributions on top of the salary if you were buying on the open market (I'm assuming around 1k p.a. for a Band 7 into the defined benefits scheme). So that's around 1/2 NHS staff with a package of around 50k.

These benefits are really significant - especially outside of London or other cities. And staff who perform very poorly cannot really be removed from the service - the unions are very strong and the processes are huge. I managed out one person but it ended up with a criminal case - i.e. the person committed a crime and I was still struggling to get rid of them.

I needed to leave the NHS for my mental health - the whole service is so traumatised - but the financial benefits of working there far, far outweigh anything in the private sector. Most staff are, I think, basically trapped. AIBU?

Nope, I am a registered nurse and during covid first lockdown I went back and got paid a band 5 (for 30 years experience, 20 in my specialty which was key during the pandemic) doing the same job I do in the private sector. I left in 2008 and was a band 6. my replacement (went back to my old department) was a band 5 so not only pay freezes but bands have been reduced as well. I did my 3 month contract and haven't gone back since, I earn twice as much in the private sector and pay an extra pension on top. I take holidays when I want and I am off for 2 weeks at the minute. I had utterly shocked at how badly paid my colleagues where compared to the private sector and how badly they are treated by hospital management. The only plus is sick pay but as I have one years salary in savings having been better paid, and no debts, I expect this is a moot point.

In 2008 I would have agreed with you and didn't want to leave the NHS. Not know, I don't think I will ever go back.

So, I will retire in 2 years at 66 years of age... 22 years service, band 3 with £6000 per annum pension. Knackered now!! 37.5 hours per week, but usually work 45....

Also for your argument to work it would help if there wasn't a staffing crisis which pretty much blasts your argument people don't move because it's too cushy out of the water....
Also on that note, why is it a negative staff stay? I don't really understand this, you think continuity and experience are a bad thing and where would clinical staff go other than to the private sector...
So are you a Tory troll? Being as talks have been underway with American healthcare companies in the past few weeks.

And staff who perform very poorly cannot really be removed from the service - the unions are very strong and the processes are huge

The processes are there to ensure fairness for all.

And do the NHS still do that 'professional' development thing where you can get paid to study? One of my sisters did that, converted to a degree and still moaned she lost her London Weighting during her (paid 18.5kpa) of study - living nearly in Sussex and gettting only a 2:2.

That was early 2000s so maybe things have changed since - all i know is the NHS have paid for a crappy nurse to further her career and she's been in charge of really crappy nursing services ever since.

First time I've ever said it, being sacred ground, but it's true.

A lot depends on where in the service you work, today ( and quite often, this isn't just a festive occurrence ) as a band 5, I have had sole responsibility for a caseload of about 300 people,( probably almost double that if you include supporting another junior colleague in the the same position ) which is fine, I know the caseload really well and have more than enough experience to be able to triage any call outs appropriately. I have more clinical skills than some of my band 6 colleagues, and have the same level of responsibility at key times, but I am paid less.

I paid for my own education and as I have to be registered with my professional body to keep my job, I pay all those fees and the cost of my continuing professional development too. Don't know about nursing, so cant comment on that.

I've worked in private and now in public sector. My take home pay was much higher but the benefits less (less holidays, less sick days and contribution based pension) but now in public sector my take home pay is lower that what I could get in private but I've got more holidays, more sick day, defined benefit pension. So really for me its a case of which do you want more? More take home pay or are the benefits more important to you?

For me as I get older the benefits are more important than how much I actually take home.

I pay 12.5% of my salary into my N HS pension that buys me 1/54th of a pension.

You have divided £27k and said that is £500 and that is what you pay into your NHS pension per annum. On 27K and paying 9% per annum into your pension - it is a few pennies more than £500

Reading this thread from Ireland makes me slightly understand how Brexit has happened - your NHS workers are brilliant and are probably not paid enough. Your private sector workers are exploited by ‘big capital’ and are scared to get sick and are looking for someone to blame that on… it’s actually shocking to see this debate. For the PP who said that 20k was the average salary in their town, can you rent/buy a house (you’d want to live in) in that town and live a decent life on that salary?

I love these kind of threads. I’m ex NHS and DH has been there for 15ish years. His pay, pension, annual leave etc are a pretty good package. NHS terms are better than you’ll find most other places (think compassionate leave, dependant leave, maternity etc) but the environment is awful. People are hired where he works because they tick a box or are known to someone senior. Many of the people in the department he works in are incompetent and can’t actually do their job to the standard required… but nobody wants to take responsibility to get rid of them.

I think the problems are the same wherever you go to be honest - I work in the private sector and do more unpaid overtime than him and am expected to perform at a much higher level for less pay than I would if I had the same responsibilities in the nhs. It’s all swings and roundabouts in my opinion .