to think NHS Staff have got amazing terms and conditions?

[backoffice]

I've left the NHS to go back to the private sector after 15 years. I've been reflecting a lot on my time in the NHS and something in particular that has struck me time and again are the great terms and conditions that really get people stuck in the service, so they can't leave.

In my organisation over 1/3 of staff were Band 7 or above (40-45k). Many had been in the service for many years. Statistically almost half of NHS staff are earning over 31k (band 6 or above).

The pension accrual at this level is the equivalent of an additional £15-20k contributions on top of the salary if you were buying on the open market (I'm assuming around 1k p.a. for a Band 7 into the defined benefits scheme). So that's around 1/2 NHS staff with a package of around 50k.

These benefits are really significant - especially outside of London or other cities. And staff who perform very poorly cannot really be removed from the service - the unions are very strong and the processes are huge. I managed out one person but it ended up with a criminal case - i.e. the person committed a crime and I was still struggling to get rid of them.

I needed to leave the NHS for my mental health - the whole service is so traumatised - but the financial benefits of working there far, far outweigh anything in the private sector. Most staff are, I think, basically trapped. AIBU?

@NotAnotherAlias

“I needed to leave the NHS for my mental health - the whole service is so traumatised“

I think you’ve answered your own question there. No, the remuneration isn’t sufficient given the conditions of work. The package was clearly not enough to compensate for what was expected of you.

I’ve worked as a senior doctor in NHS and private organisations. I’ve always been paid more (including taking account of pension) outside the NHS with more autonomy and fewer day to day hassles.

But just paying someone more, doesn't "cure" the mental health problem does it?

The real answer is to deal with the stress, long hours, culture etc. That way, you'll stop people leaving.

Money alone isn't the answer.

Well done on the propaganda, keep it up and the Daily Fail might pick it up.

Sick leave is the big one. Registrar could not take in that DH was employed but desperate to return to work following a work caused broken arm because he (vet) had 2 weeks of sick pay... Zero idea that once could be employed but get minimal/no sick pay, possibly because he knew that the training/expertise were similar...

@HarrietOh

Never understand the bashing of admin workers 'back office/pen pushers' etc. Without them the medical and clinical staff couldn't do their jobs.

I think it's the inefficiency/incompetence of SOME of the pen pushers/management that's the problem. We all know that front line staff (in whatever profession) need back office support and management. Unfortunately, there seems to be the opinion from front line medical staff and patients that the admin support in the NHS is actually pretty crap in a lot of areas, that's more of a hindrance than a benefit.

As @user823445234 says, we can't recruit PNs and ANPs which is odd given the amazing pay and benefits on offer. FWIW, I think the English NHS underpays significantly given the training and responsibility which is why we see significant recruitment and retention problems and too many of my colleagues are still working their escape plans for emigration and change of career to leave health entirely. We've seen GP practices hand back entire contacts and close (beyond the small practice retirement) which I've not seen happen before.

The integrity in the NHS is second to none and that’s what needs protecting.. too many loop holes and people doing jobs for the wrong reasons (ie greed) in the private sector. That’s what’s so worrying about it being privatised..

@user823445234

Blue Light Card, NHS Black Card, discounts in stores These 'discounts' are no different the discounts available to everyone on Vouchercodes. Just marketing schemes to get people to spend money, just the same as signing up to Vouchercodes/Hotdeals etc. Nothing different or extra at all.

Do supermarkets offer similar discounts enjoyed by NHS workers to others via vouchercodes/hotdeals etc??

"NHS hospitals, mental health services and community providers are now reporting a shortage of nearly 84,000 FTE staff, severely affecting key groups such as nurses, midwives and health visitors."

‘Undervalued’ nurses depart, leaving NHS with staffing shortage
www.ft.com/content/f2ace7d9-59ce-406c-9db6-a844e6806e05

At least now you have educated us to what a gravy-train being a nurse is, the service will be inundated with trainees and those returning to practice (NOT)

This is the problem with the public sector full stop. Poor performance, attendance is not managed well. And the expectation of endless investment is unreasonable. It is a structural problem rather than anything that individuals can be blamed for.
People working in public sector take offense to this but it not about their individual role.

Ex NHS here. It is well paid and the holidays are generous. I couldn't believe back office staff got 7 week's holiday at starting point, even though they don't work bank holidays. But imho you get treated badly. I have opted to earn a lot less somewhere else.

I think many people in the NHS/education etc on defined benefit pension schemes dont realise just what a huge part of the remuneration they are. My private employer DC scheme is considered good, yet on a high wage (90k basic) the value of pension contributions I get annually is lower than the defined benefit received by someone earning 30k in nursing.

More should be done to advertise just how much DB schemes cost the NHS to provide.

I work for the NHS (admin staff). Our team are all band 2 and 3. I’m on just under £20k a year. It’s very poor for what we do. But the holiday is generous (28 days)

Nurses do not get paid extra for every extra responsibility they take on, unlike teachers (e.g. in addition to their normal role, a senior nurse might also be responsible for recruitment, teaching, supplies or the whole department's rota, for no extra money).
I can absolutely assure you that primary teachers are rarely rewarded for taking on extra responsibilities - there is nothing like the budget for it. For example, training student teachers creates a huge additional workload for no extra pay.

Do supermarkets offer similar discounts enjoyed by NHS workers to others via vouchercodes/hotdeals etc??

Lots of ordinary private corporations have employee discount schemes where you can buy discount supermarket vouchers, yes.

Eg you can pay £95 for sainsburys vouchers worth £100 or whatever.

[quote backoffice]@kithic Doctors are medical. Nurses are clinical.[/quote]
thank you

Kakser
There are lots of responsibility points with extra pay attached in primary schools (lots of teachers in my family) so that's not true. Training up new staff is part of the job in many many occupations

You will probably be paid more in the private sector. I know someone who left the NHS to go to the private sector because they offered her just over 3 times what the NHS were paying her. I think that far outweighs the benefits later down the line in all honesty. Obviously it depends what you do in the NHS I suppose.

@Halfaham

Ex NHS here. It is well paid and the holidays are generous. I couldn't believe back office staff got 7 week's holiday at starting point, even though they don't work bank holidays. But imho you get treated badly. I have opted to earn a lot less somewhere else.

They don’t though, do they. Starting AL is 25 days plus 8 bank holiday days.

Having thought about the 'amazing' packages, I'd expect to see a migration of my acquaintances from the City to the gold-plated pension laden NHS world. Perhaps they'll save the day as we can't recruit.

I just did a placement in a learning disability community team half the team are band 7 and above because it's a highly skilled in demand workforce. It's cheaper to have specialist trained staff than have community placements fail and then the patient being sectioned.

@LegendaryReady

FWIW, BIL worked in IT and was very 9 to 5 but still benefited from NHS sickpay (for 2 years before he retired). It's not true to say the terms are payback for long hours etc. Not everyone in the NHS works like that by a long shot. DH worked far longer hours in the private sector without any of the benefits.

He didn’t. The maximum period for sick pay in the NHS is a year. And I’m struggling to believe he’s getting his NHS pension at 56 either. He’s spun you a yarn.

I do believe private pay more I'm looking for my first job after qualifying and one was paying 36k for a preceptorship. I was wondering what was wrong with the job if they were paying that much it must be horrific !!

I needed to leave the NHS for my mental health - the whole service is so traumatised - but the financial benefits of working there far, far outweigh anything in the private sector. Most staff are, I think, basically trapped. AIBU?

This thread is so moronic its embarrassing.
The terms and conditions are great and if it wasn't for the pesky work thing it would be a great job!!!!! Well is there a possibility that the t&c's are great in order to attract people to what in a lot of cases is a very trying job? The Op left for mental health reasons but somehow doesn't see the connection to the need for good t&c's

Then you always get the pile on posts with comments like " well my aunty Barbra works for the NHS and she has an easy job " as if Aunty Barbra is the norm. FFS 1.3 MILLION people work for the NHS, what is the norm?????

@sst1234

This is the problem with the public sector full stop. Poor performance, attendance is not managed well. And the expectation of endless investment is unreasonable. It is a structural problem rather than anything that individuals can be blamed for. People working in public sector take offense to this but it not about their individual role.

👍 Well said. I’ve debated going into the NHS but I know that I would just be pulling my hair out half the time.

Yeah the conditions are so good it fucked up your mental health.....great conditions.

See in my view conditions aren't just the wage/pension....it's your actual day to day working conditions. Which are beyond shit and why I left the ns for private work on less pay and a worse pension.

The govt should reflect on that with their 3% pay rise.....it's not the money which is causing people to leave!