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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

To think the proposed NI increases for social care are unfair?

998 replies

shouldbeworkingmore · 03/09/2021 09:39

I recognise that social care needs funding but think that this proposal unfairly targets the younger generations. Plus we already have income taxes by stealth as the thresh holds have been frozen & wage stagnation is likely to continue for the next decade.

OP posts:
LaurieFairyCake · 05/09/2021 20:56

Why should people forfeit property ?

Because they NEED it to pay for THEIR care - it's what it's FOR

I'm very happy to use our flat to pay for me and Dh's care - DD shouldn't get it any more than the next person Confused

Inheritance tax should be 100% - then equality may actually take a step towards being possible

Pottedpalm · 05/09/2021 20:57

[quote CBUK2K2]@Pottedpalm families have the option to care for their own loved ones as in other cultures.[/quote]
Yeah, sure. That assumes you are physically able to provide the care needed by an elderly person, can move into their home or fit them into yours, can afford to give up work …

Pottedpalm · 05/09/2021 20:58

@LaurieFairyCake

Why should people forfeit property ?

Because they NEED it to pay for THEIR care - it's what it's FOR

I'm very happy to use our flat to pay for me and Dh's care - DD shouldn't get it any more than the next person Confused

Inheritance tax should be 100% - then equality may actually take a step towards being possible

But it IS used to pay for care if you have no other assets.
Original poster
shouldbeworkingmore · 05/09/2021 20:59

But it IS used to pay for care if you have no other assets.

I didn't think it was for care in the home?

OP posts:
Pottedpalm · 05/09/2021 21:00

I’m talking about the situation where someone dies without having needed care

Pottedpalm · 05/09/2021 21:01

You have to pay for care in the home

TreesoftheField · 05/09/2021 21:06

Don't 1% of the country pay a larger proportion of tax because they earn more than 53% combined?
Tax is based on income- if you're paying more tax its cos you can afford to.

Original poster
shouldbeworkingmore · 05/09/2021 21:12

You have to pay for care in the home

Not with your house though

OP posts:
woohoo54 · 05/09/2021 21:19

It should be income tax, there's plenty of westbound pensioners. The issue is the conservatives depend on their vote so would rather squeeze younger, often more left leaning voters.

woohoo54 · 05/09/2021 21:19

*wealthy

CBUK2K2 · 05/09/2021 21:54

@TreesoftheField You mean the old someone else can pay argument?

CBUK2K2 · 05/09/2021 21:57

@Pottedpalm The tax older people have paid was never intended to provide the all encompassing health and social care service that the NHS seem to want to provide today. It seems fairly perverse to expect the young to pay the bills of relatively wealthy older people.

DecadentlyDecisive · 05/09/2021 22:02

I know more poor young people than I do poor pensioners.

That's why I disagreed with free TV licences for pensioners when many young couples couldn't afford £150 a year.

garannenee · 05/09/2021 22:03

It's outrageous! Taking money out of the pockets of the younger working population. What happens when those generations get old, many won't own houses, many that do will not have seen huge growth, many won't get to retire as they won't be able to afford it & state pension age is higher. And let's not kid ourselves the 20 yrs olds today will be looking at even shitter care options despite paying into the system for 40/50 years at a higher cost.

garannenee · 05/09/2021 22:05

I will be encouraging my dc to leave, thank god they still have European citizenship so have some options at least.

Tealightsandd · 05/09/2021 22:06

[quote CBUK2K2]@Pottedpalm The tax older people have paid was never intended to provide the all encompassing health and social care service that the NHS seem to want to provide today. It seems fairly perverse to expect the young to pay the bills of relatively wealthy older people.[/quote]
The majority of today's elderly will have paid tax from 15/16. Because that's when most people left education in the past. They've paid their share

In any case, as was pointed out upthread, the problem won't be solved by selling homes. Not for Generation Rent. Like I said before, the fastest growing group of private renters are over 40s. They'll need care AND, before care home stage, housing benefit when they retire. As private renting is significantly more expensive than social rent, that's one heck of a housing benefit bill.

Tealightsandd · 05/09/2021 22:15

@DecadentlyDecisive

I know more poor young people than I do poor pensioners.

That's why I disagreed with free TV licences for pensioners when many young couples couldn't afford £150 a year.

There are plenty of pensioners in poverty. Whether you know any or not depends on who you know and where you live.

It's very easy for governments to cover bad policy with encouraged division. Be it region, race, or age. The reality is every generation has some who are rich and others who are poor.

The reasoning behind free TV licences for pensioners is because, unlike working people, they are more likely to be housebound or at least suffer limited mobility - with resulting isolation and loneliness. For many pensioners, TV is their main and sometimes only company. (Arguably people too disabled to work should also qualify but that's another matter).

garannenee · 05/09/2021 22:16

I'm in my 40s & paid NI since I was 17 despite doing A-Levels & Uni & having dc. I don't think that's unusual.
My state pension age is 68 so that's 51 years of contributions if I work to that point. So by that logic many of my peers & younger people will easily pay their "share".

But I don't subscribe to the belief that I have paid a share though. If the average work earning 30k pays in 2.5k for 50 years thats 125k, is that really enough?

Tealightsandd · 05/09/2021 22:16

It would be perfectly reasonable to raise either or both of NI and income tax to cover not just care costs but also much needed social housing, to tackle the public health housing emergency - BUT with a higher threshold of minimum income for liability. That way we'd get desperately needed funding for public services without hitting those already struggling to survive. Whatever their age.

Lincslady53 · 05/09/2021 22:16

I have read many articles on this topic this week. If a pensioner has income that takes them over the £12+k tax level, they pay income tax but no NI. I would increase NI but up the starting limit to the same as income tax, and remove the higher end cap. I would also cut the limit that inheritance tax kicks in by day £100k so the assets of older people would pay towards the care. However, which generation will actually benefit from houses not being sold to fund care? The people in care won't benefit, they no longer need the house. The people who really stand to gain are the younger people who will inherit more, as it is not spent on care. The younger generations have also had billions spent in financial support, either through furlough or an extra £20per week on UC. Pensioners have had nowt, no extra pension, and if you have savings, interest rates have been very low for over a decade, which helps younger people with lower mortgages, but penalised older people who have saved for their future.

SophieHMS · 05/09/2021 22:18

It's yet another benefit for the baby boomers - (of whom I am one). Free higher education, loads of good jobs, cheap housing, council housing, no worry about wrecking the globe with our consumerism. Now we get to stitch up the young to pay for our pending care needs.

It's a disgrace. Tax the wealthy, the top 1%, more, stop allowing loopholes for huge global companies to pay piss all tax, and double inheritance tax

SofiaMichelle · 05/09/2021 22:18

The majority of today's elderly will have paid tax from 15/16. Because that's when most people left education in the past. They've paid their share...

The vast majority will have paid in far less than they've taken out.

If that's "their share" it's clearly not enough.

garannenee · 05/09/2021 22:19

There are plenty of pensioners in poverty. Whether you know any or not depends on who you know and where you live.

Of course poor pensioners exist but statistically many are better off than younger working people.

Tealightsandd · 05/09/2021 22:20

@SofiaMichelle

The majority of today's elderly will have paid tax from 15/16. Because that's when most people left education in the past. They've paid their share...

The vast majority will have paid in far less than they've taken out.

If that's "their share" it's clearly not enough.

Well then that's the same for younger generations too.
CBUK2K2 · 05/09/2021 22:20

@Tealightsandd So we're going to tax the over 40's more to pay for the care of the elderly? How is this going to help them ever own a home.

My mother in law is a good example, she is in her mid 70's, worked 2 days a week in retail, rarely if ever qualified to pay income tax due to earnings, she now gets more in state pension than she did as an employed person and gets all her medical needs met by the NHS.

A significant number of women in this age group also worked part time or didn't work at all.