To think the proposed NI increases for social care are unfair?

[shouldbeworkingmore]

I recognise that social care needs funding but think that this proposal unfairly targets the younger generations. Plus we already have income taxes by stealth as the thresh holds have been frozen & wage stagnation is likely to continue for the next decade.

@Ritasueandbobtoo9 I definitely noticed a really sad tendency when doing my DDs EHCP (so not quite the same) with a lot of battles between NHS and the LA and even different departments within then La over whose budget something needs to come from and it ending with the service user not going it at all.

@CalamityJaneDoe

I feel like, with the current housing crisis, inheritance should be capped at £20,000 per child. They should not be able to inherit the house but should be offered first refusal to buy the house.

The proceeds the government gets from the inheritance and the sales of homes should go straight into social housing.

This would solve two problems- social housing and the rich getting richer every generation, widening the wealth divide and further cementing class roles.

There's too many complications with this and it's heading down the path of the government telling us who we can leave to. What about items of value other than a house, can I leave someone jewellery or a classic car for example?

I have no children, why should the government get everything I have so they can waste it? What about gifts to non family members, can I leave my money to my godchildren? Surely charities also be allowed £20k - why should they lose out?

To be honest I'd make sure I had a bloody good retirement and spent as much as possible!

@Tealightsandd I'm a single parent, work full time and higher rate tax payer. Please don't assume we are all 'vulnerable'

Sorry if I gave that impression @Cherryade8

I know you're not all vulnerable. Likewise disabled and long term ill people. I mentioned groups who (through no fault of their own) are statistically more likely to be in less stable housing (due to being failed by successive governments with regards the public health housing emergency). But, yes you're absolutely right, that statistically more likely doesn't mean everybody in a particular group will be in the same position.

The money should be raised to fund social care through bringing capital gains tax into line with PAYE as top priority. I am older and will lose out more personally but it’s fairer to tax the asset rich proportionally more than the working poor.

unfairly targets the younger generations

Most people use the NHS and other social care services most when
a) they have a young family (eg. the taxpayer contributes around £150,000 towards the cost of raising every UK child - medical, social care, education etc)
b) they are frail and elderly

In between those periods when most people get more out of the State than they put in, we taxpayers are generally nett contributors. So it is quite fair, really.

Oh, and just as not all families with children under the age of 18 use all the services available, neither do the elderly - indeed, I gather that it is only about 20% of the elderly who need to be looked after in a care home.

@NantesElephant by increasing CGT it may discourage multiple home ownership

which is a good thing

@CalamityJaneDoe

I feel like, with the current housing crisis, inheritance should be capped at £20,000 per child. They should not be able to inherit the house but should be offered first refusal to buy the house.

The proceeds the government gets from the inheritance and the sales of homes should go straight into social housing.

This would solve two problems- social housing and the rich getting richer every generation, widening the wealth divide and further cementing class roles.

Seriously, fuck off. My husband and I work now to provide to our children, we both pay 45% tax, we pay council tax, we pay VAT on relevant spending and now you want the state to confiscate the vast majority if what we accumulate as well?

@KaycePollard I don't understand your argument. No one is saying NI shouldn't be paid, the point of my post was if it's increased it targets the younger population.

There is far too much tax. I would prefer a small state and let people opt out of the NHS (with paying less tax for those who opt out)

@MatildaIThink would you object to a charge eg 10%? We have a good income & equity but I would prefer my dc to have more money in their pockets & cheaper house prices.

There is far too much tax

I don't think high taxes are bad in theory but at the moment we have a system where people are paying more & more tax for less so something is not working.

[quote shouldbeworkingmore]@MatildaIThink would you object to a charge eg 10%? We have a good income & equity but I would prefer my dc to have more money in their pockets & cheaper house prices. [/quote]
Inheritance tax is already 40% which will be charged on a significant proportion of our estate when we die. We pay huge amounts of tax each year, we will pay a lot more when we die. I am happy to pay a bit more for a better society, but it needs to be that we all pay, not just punitive measures against people have done reasonably in their careers.

Yes but @MatildaIThink there are ways of avoiding IHT. It's not possible that we can all pay, there should be a safety net as not everyone can work for whatever reasons.

[quote shouldbeworkingmore]@NantesElephant by increasing CGT it may discourage multiple home ownership [/quote]
I doubt it. Most people with multiple homes have no intention of selling them. They whole point is for their children to inherit once they die, especially people with rented property portfolios, because there's no CGT upon death. So increasing CGT, it could actually have the opposite effect, i.e. encourage more people to keep properties and never sell them.

That's the trouble with tax - so many behavioural implications that the politicians and policy setters never think about.

The entire point of this is to reduce the amount that homeowners have to pay towards their social care and ensure house inheritances remain in place for the wealthy. The tories do not care about properly funding social care.

I work with people who are older than me but have 2m houses because of when they bought & people younger than me who pay more than my mortgage in rent. Working hard & what career you have is less important these days. I think future prospects are very much determined by whether your parents own a home & if they are in the position to help you own one. That's not a good thing.

@shouldbeworkingmore

There is far too much tax

I don't think high taxes are bad in theory but at the moment we have a system where people are paying more & more tax for less so something is not working.

The problems with tax is the sheer complexity and lack of "joined up thinking". We desperately need some real simplification and logic to start addressing the anomalies.

Most other countries have much simpler tax systems with fewer anomalies.

We have far too many loopholes on one side and tax-traps on the other.

Most other countries have much simpler tax systems with fewer anomalies.

We have far too many loopholes on one side and tax-traps on the other.

Agree

@Pedalpushers

The entire point of this is to reduce the amount that homeowners have to pay towards their social care and ensure house inheritances remain in place for the wealthy. The tories do not care about properly funding social care.

Out of interest what is Labour's plan? I don't remember Brown/Blair addressing the social care problem, and presumably if you don't like the Tory plans, you must prefer the alternatives offered by Labour??

@shouldbeworkingmore

Yes but *@MatildaIThink* there are ways of avoiding IHT. It's not possible that we can all pay, there should be a safety net as not everyone can work for whatever reasons.

I do not mean we make people pay for services, I mean people need to pay more tax on their earnings. We have the lowest tax rates in the EU for the bottom two thirds of earners, the top third have the sixth highest. We need to tax people more, so that more people make a bigger contribution and more people make a net contribution. 1% of people pay a third of all income tax, 53% of households receive more in cash benefits than they pay in tax. The system requires us all to pay more tax, I accept that means I have to pay more, but I am not prepared for it to be just people like me who pay more.

Who knows wtf labour is doing these days

The system requires us all to pay more tax, I accept that means I have to pay more, but I am not prepared for it to be just people like me who pay more.

Imo assets need to be taxed more not just income.