Has anyone’s mum ever actually stolen their baby?

[Cabbagewhites]

Seen a few threads recently (and lots over the years!) where women fear their mums / MIL want to take over the parenting of their child.
On a thread recently a PP described the overbearing MIL as ‘sinister’.

Just got me wondering, how much of a genuine threat is this? Worst case scenario- how far does it ever actually go?

Has anyone ever been in or heard of a family where grandma did in fact actually succeed in taking over the role of mother, becoming primary care giver in child’s eyes?

(I mean in situations where parents are actively parenting and haven’t actually asked or encouraged GP to step in, and there’s no kinship fostering or anything like that.)

I don’t have children, I’m just curious!

Not real life (well not to some) but The archers has a current story line which has made me think about this also. I’m wondering if there will be a little ‘Marfer’ tussle with Chris (F) and even Alice (should she return from rehab successfully or at all).

@WhoNeedsaManOfTheWorld

I watched a documentary about reborn dolls a few years ago. They were looking at the stories of those who purchase reborn dolls I found one very disturbing and it has stayed with me. Single mother with a baby got a life threatening condition, cancer I think, so her mum stepped in to care for the baby. Lots of treatment and hospital stays and she made a full recovery. Later fell in love and was moving to be with the guy. Her mother was devastated and, it appeared, would rather her daughter had died so she could have the baby. The mother was having a reborn made to replace the grandchild who was back with his mum

I think I’ve found the programme you mentioned. m.youtube.com/watch?v=Zmd4amS5rwY

Some of these stories are just beyond the pale!

(stories on this thread I mean. The ones on the documentary are just…. well watch it and make up your own minds )

BILs wife struggled with PND after having their daughter and her (fairly young) mother dying suddenly in quick succession. Went back to work early out of choice (and some gentle encouragement from MIL) and our MIL was minding the baby everyday. Wife then decided one day to leave BIL. No OM/OW involved, she just genuinely didn't love him anymore. Huge surprise to him. She left him with the house (he had owned it before meeting her and wife had never contributed to it financially) and tried to take their daughter. BIL argued that it wasnt fair as it was his daughter too and he wasnt the one splitting up the family so why should the baby have to leave her home. Encouraged wife to go and get settled somewhere then they could look at 50/50 but until then he would keep daughter and she could see her weekends. Knowing it was our MIL doing the childcare wife didnt really have a choice or she would have been jobless and homeless with a small child. She left and saw her child for an allotted time at weekends. Some months later asked for 50/50 and was convinced by MIL it was best to leave the toddler where she was at dads, as obviously if wife had her 50/50 she would then need to find and pay for childcare for the days she worked and that was silly as MIL was doing it for free while she was at husbands. Child was very well cared for at BILs as well. Emotionally and he had a very good job with no childcare costs so fine financially. MIL had the child everyday until she was school age and then did all the school runs until she went to high school. MIL did all everyday duties like buying uniforms, clothes, filling in school letters, buying school photographs, making packed lunches, organising birthday parties etc. My DH was a teen at home at this point and remembers getting annoyed that DNiece had begun calling MIL "mum". He would tell her "Thats my mum, not yours, shes your grandma" but MIL never corrected her. They finally settled into a more 50/50 life when the child was around 11 and chose to spend more time at her mums. Child is now grown up and close to both parents but especially close to MIL.

So not really MIL stealing the baby but heavily encouraging and maybe applying pressure onto a mother already struggling and not in a position to fight (financially or emotionally).

I have always found MIL is actually a very lovely person and i dont believe means any harm but just oversteps because she has been allowed to. I feel she did what she thought was best at the time but not thinking of the childs mother. When I had my first child MIL was upset not to be at the birth, as she had been at all her other grandchildrens (I had only DH present). She attempted to encourage me back to work very quickly but was told no. Was most put out not to do 5 days a week childcare as I could work from home and arrange schedule with DH. Got visibly distressed when she wasnt present for first haircut and confused/emotional when I wouldnt hand over the first curl. "I have Xs curl so why wouldnt I have your childs?". Was upset when not invited on every holiday with us as she was with her first grandchild. Also with parties. However I stood firm that I was the childs mother (we have managed to never argue and instead I just calmly repeat myself until she understands/goes away). Now if im planning a party I give her a list of things I need (that she insists on paying for as "her share") and she feels involved. Usually include something really random like red triangle shape party plates that will keep her busy so she doesn't finish the list and come bothering me in 4 hours flat. Also give her hosting duties of tea making/coat taking etc. Same at Christmas. She doesnt come Christmas day (its just the 5 of us) but we have dinner on Christmas Eve with her. She also has the task of Christmas list writing with the children at the end of November and I let her take pick of the gifts she wants first (she always chooses the biggest and most expensive items which suits me fine as the kids dont tally cost or care who spent what, even now they're teenagers).

When my sister was dying a few years ago I had to go out of town for a week to be there for her family and left MIL in charge. She loved it (the role, not the dying). I facetimed daily and she would beam as she made all DHs favourite foods and the children were spoilt rotten. She encouraged me to stay there (as "they need you") every day and was in her element. I was extremely grateful to her (as I still am for everything she does) but I find you do need to keep tight boundary lines with her and not waver. Also I try not to do the same thing twice with her or it becomes "tradition" and she isnt happy if you then do it without her.

How does this happen the gps arent on the birth certificate they have no PR how come the police cant just go round there and take the child back

Some of these stories are very sad.

What I don't understand is, why would parents have to take grandparents to court to get their own child back? Surely if grandparents can do it, anyone could take your child?

@GeorgiaGirl52

I did. I took my grandson from my daughter and her partner and raised him for 18 years. She was a drug user and so was her bf. Both sets of grandparents supported them through the pregnancy and the first year (even bought them a house!). All we asked was they get clean and decide whether to get a job or go to uni (which we would have paid for). They decided to leave the baby with me for the weekend and disappear for four months. No contact with me or the baby. They then showed back up, demanded the baby back, kept him four days and returned him to me with a broken collarbone. Then they were gone again. I consulted with bf's parents and we agreed I should seek custody so I did and was granted full custody. I allowed them to visit with him in my home when they showed up if they were not drunk or high. BF moved away, got another girl pregnant and had another son and left them and moved away. My daughter finally got clean when her son was 13 years old. She has a job/career, goes to AA, and lives on our street. Her son and I welcomed her back and she is a daily part of our lives. No, he never called me Mother. I always told him he had parents who could not take care of him, but his grandmother could and did.

That isn't you stealing the baby that was you doing the best thing for your grandchild. I think the OP means GMs who do it for sinister reasons rather than loving ones like you clearly did.

[quote HerRoyalRisesAgain]@GeorgiaGirl52 I think that's an entirely different scenario to just stealing a child.

But on that note I also know a woman who has 3 kids. Gave the two older ones to their dad and the youngest to her grandmother simply because she wanted to go out and party. I also know of drug addicts having their children in the care of grandparents. [/quote]
To be honest, I'd rather she hands over a child she doesn't want to care for instead of doing what Verphy Kudi did.

I posted on another thread about this, and started my own in 2017 under a different username

My mum always threatened to take my baby when I was a teen. The basis of it being shame and religion amongst other things. I was told if I left home, SS would be called and had this hanging over me everyday

One day I actually packed up my stuff and took baby when she was gone. When she saw the ransacked room she called SS and the police

She had zero leg to stand on thankfully. She, herself was an abusive person and I made sure to back myself before I left with evidence to show SS in case things came to that

SS had no concerns with me at all. It was clearly malicious given she never bothered calling SS the entire time I lived at home (if I was such an awful mother and she was ever so concerned).

It's unfortunate but also comforting to know I'm not the only person who's had a controlling/unhinged family member do this

A couple of friends I grew up with, found out as teenagers their 'susters' were their mums.
This wasn't unusual in the 60s though, as unmarried mothers were seen as shameful and that way the baby was kept in the family.

About thirty years ago, I knew a single mum in her early twenties. She wasn't a bad mother, but very poor while her parents were very wealthy.
In an attempt to buy the 4 or 5 year-old grandson they bought all manner of toys and I seem to remember a pony for the lad, but he wasn't allowed to take anything away from their house.
After two or three years of this treatment the daughter committed suicide and the grandparents won.

There was a poster on reddit who's Mum killed his daughter by putting coconut oil in her hair after refusing to believe she was allergic. It brings me to tears every time I think about it, so I always understand why people are guarded against untrustworthy relatives.

My mother tried to do it to my older half sister.

Insisted that she went straight back to work whilst she had the baby, wouldn't give permission for my sister to leave home (she was 17), wouldn't allow her boyfriend in the front gate or to call, let people assume that the baby was hers, then, when my sister said they were thinking of saving up to get married and buy a house, went ballistic and screamed at her that if she did, she would never see 'her baby' (my mother meant the baby was hers, not my sister's) again and she was going to update her benefits claim to include the new baby as it was hers now.

They eloped a week after my sister's 18th birthday, taking the baby with them (and our GD to walk her down the aisle - it took a while for our mother to find out both her parents had gone when she saw a wedding photo at their house it didn't go down well apparently ). Still married nearly 50 years later.

She also tried persuading my half brother to let her register his son as living with her 'so we can get him into the primary school round the corner and I can look after him when you're both at work all week, you pick him up on a Friday and bring him back for Sunday Lunch. Oh, and because I'd claim benefit for him, you wouldn't need to pay me much'. His wife gave up work fairly shortly after that and didn't return until their second went to school, when her mother looked after the pair of them.

I grew up being told that if I ever got pregnant before I had my own home, I'd have to either have a termination (her phrase was 'get it scraped out of you') or sign it over to her at birth so I couldn't take it later. Had loads of stories of how people she knew had done exactly the same, registering the baby as though they'd given birth to it, to make sure the daughter couldn't just up and leave with the child as it was officially the parents'. So the day I found out I was pregnant, I didn't go home. Never did again.

I'm sure she wasn't and isn't the only babystealing psychobitch around.

wow I’m actually shocked how often this happens. It also makes me think of the programme on not that long ago about family court and how things can go horribly wrong for the ones who go to this system for ‘help’ for them to be accused of all sorts when it’s not the case at all. Feel so sorry for all these/those kids have been through

I have a friend, Her mother took her son off her and refused to 'give him back' Mother had been working behind the scenes, getting people to lie on her behalf, getting a residency order behind friends back etc. She told everyone who would listen son was at risk of significant harm etc. ended up in court where mother lied through her teeth. Very long and complicated but boils down to the mother is a narc and threatened daughter she would do it if daughter moved away to start a new life. She did what she threatened. Ruined my friends life and she has no relationship with her son now, not through lack of trying.. he always believed grandma's account.

I have seen all the court documents as my friend wanted to open up about it one night. Also, I know her mother since we grew up together and she is a narc, controlling, nasty, nice to people to their face but nasty once she is behind closed doors.

Mother even went as low as to accuse daughters husband of abusing son, He ended up leaving friend because of it all. So, She lost her son and her husband because her mother couldn't cut the apron strings and let her be an adult. She has been depressed for over a decade now because of it all.

This thread is sending shivers down my back…Ex MIL had traits of this. She alway insisted on looking after my eldest DC alone, including having her overnight and making parenting decisions that directly contradicted what I’d usually do. I always felt uneasy at how involved she wanted to be and my fears were confirmed when she referred to herself as “Mama” in front of me. Her overbearing behaviour caused a lot of problems in our relationship.

I know someone who had a baby young but not terribly young - around 18 - with her boyfriend. She had younger siblings at home too. She stayed at home to go to college and her parents were really supportive - but supportive in a way that didn't prioritise the mother/child bond but their bond with their grandson so she was sidelined from the start. He stayed with them when she moved out and got married and I know it was a real tragedy in her life that she didn't get to rear her own son. She agreed to leave him because by then it seemed the right thing to do for her son.

One of the things I loved most about my mil was how she was more concerned about my bond with my baby than she was with hers. She came to stay immediately after the birth because I was so sick I needed help. Instead of taking over she would do things like make me breakfast or offer to watch him while he slept so I could go back to sleep or wait till I had finished the night feed and then appear and say "I can put him back to sleep for you if you'd like to go back to bed or sit with you if you'd prefer that" She constantly told me how great a mother I was.

My friend lost her oldest child to her parents when she split from her first husband. Her dad really wanted a son and all his children and grandchildren were girls apart from my friend's son.

She had a bit of a breakdown when her marriage ended and her parents stepped in to help and then apparently took advantage of the situation. They had space in their house for her baby but not for her and she ended up in a dodgy B&B for a few months. Once she got a decent place sorted out they just refused to hand the baby over. They eventually claimed she was an unfit mother and everyone, including her ex-husband, sided against her.

Years later they tried the same with her next son. They intervened when her second marriage failed. They ended up housing their SIL and other grandson (funnily enough their house was big enough for them both!). This time her second son was much older and he insisted on returning to his mum's new house as soon as it was ready. The grandad has since died and the SIL is still living at his ex MILs house.

Her oldest son calls his grandmother and grandfather mum and dad and my friend by her name. He doesn't like her because she tried to take him away from his mum and dad and she upset them. He has no relationship with his father.

One thing that my friend seems to get wrong is the lack of stability in her life. She is constantly moving houses, losing possessions due to lack of storage options or transportation or having to sell everything. She has been involved with several high risk businesses and has been burnt. She is now investing her savings in another friend's business. I've never met this new friend and it all seems to be happening too quickly and I'm dubious. Her money was supposed to be going on a mortgage as she's been in rented housing for the last few years and wanted her own place again.

My MIL stole SIL's baby. It absolutely CAN happen.

Yes, I've had first hand experience of this, my older sibling being taken away from my mother when I arrived in the guise of "helping" a struggling new mum, my grandmother wouldn't return my older sibling and for the first few years of my life didn't live with us!

Second, I've seen it happen with my in laws where"gran" insisted on being called mum by grandkids, demanded access on specific days during maternity leave, then threatened to go to court for access when the relationship failed (their son, the dad, was a serial cheat) because they could prove the pattern of care. Really fucked up. It only ended when fake mum died. Not joking, it was awful watching the situation from afar and clearly the kids cared for her, but she put their mother through hell with demands and legal threats.

yes those mad buggers can do it. It is real.

Luckily my mum is not like that. Not 100% certain of MIL though - she has form. Especially when our daughter was a baby. Very dominant and quite aggressively proprietorial.

I am a woman but some women. ....

I've worked with someone who didn't react well when her daughter and grandchild had got their own place and were moving out after a teenage pregnancy. She barricaded herself in the house with her grandchild. The police had to be called. SS had been involved and supported the teenage mother completely, despite the grandparent claiming the teenage mother wasn't looking after the baby properly.

After a while she began to provide childcare for her grandchild but was caught trying to get the child to call them mummy and the mother by her christian name. The childcare ended.

She has refused to return the child after being allowed to spend time with her grandchild. The police have been involved a few times. She's now no longer allowed to spend time alone with that grandchild. Her daughter has had more children and is very strict about not ever allowing them to be alone with her.

There was a case on TV; the kind of super nanny problem solving one.
The couple (or it may have been a single mother) lived with the mother's parents. I think the mother may also have worked, but when she was home she felt tired, and so the 'parenting' was done by the grandmother.
I cannot remember why there was a problem which involved them being on the program, but I well remember it being pointed out that the mother had sort of 'opted' out of parenting leaving it to the grandmother, but there was resentment all round.
The mother felt usurped, and the grandmother also felt put upon.
I remember that part of the solution was for the grandmother to step back, and the mother to step up.

My SIL went really weird one day when my son was about 8 weeks old. Only the second time she had met him (we lived in different countries). She took him out of pram where he was sleeping when I nipped to the loo and went and hid in another room and refused to give him back even though he was screaming and desperate for milk. Really weird and DH and his family just all stood around and wouldn't confront her.

Oh and my ex grandmother in law has form for encouraging her son's/grandsons to make spurious allergations about the mothers mental health if they split and then funds their protracted legal battles. I was "lucky" as I had family and medical support to fight it. But some children in that ("respectable" middle class) family were separated from loving mothers for long stretches. (I only found this out after it happened to me and they got in touch)